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I don`t think I`ll ever be able to own an auto. For me,it`s old school manual tranny only :^)
Manual Transmission is Obsolete?
- Thread starter Marukai
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
The computer can not control the engine well enough with a manual.
People are too stupid to utilize physics and MTs right to extract high MPGs. Couple that to he fact that manufacturers think people have to feel "performance" oriented., and so the gearing is lousy.
At the end of the day, no smarts can outwit physics. An MT is far lighter than an AT.
People that mash the go pedal with an AT doesnt give good MPGs either. CAFE is a sham. People likely use 50% more fuel than they have to because of poor driving habits. No computer control (except power limiting) can overcome peoples' stupid driving habits.
True in my cases when i drive to work, if a drive fast and shift at higher rpm i drain half of my fuel tank, driving at 120kmh .If I drive carefully and stay at 100kmh it take me only 1/4 of the tank .As for the standard transmission is does disappearing slowly, its not just the café , in these day for 1 manual sold 20 automatic are . Market change, now these day lots of people see car as a disposable goods, use it 3 year trade it and get another one. The market mostly see their vehicle as a mean of transport and take no pleasure or pride in it, car market had to adapt to it. You will still see some exception, some brand will continue to offer standard but at a certain cost.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
The computer can not control the engine well enough with a manual.
People are too stupid to utilize physics and MTs right to extract high MPGs. Couple that to he fact that manufacturers think people have to feel "performance" oriented., and so the gearing is lousy.
At the end of the day, no smarts can outwit physics. An MT is far lighter than an AT.
People that mash the go pedal with an AT doesnt give good MPGs either. CAFE is a sham. People likely use 50% more fuel than they have to because of poor driving habits. No computer control (except power limiting) can overcome peoples' stupid driving habits.
True in my cases when i drive to work, if a drive fast and shift at higher rpm i drain half of my fuel tank, driving at 120kmh .If I drive carefully and stay at 100kmh it take me only 1/4 of the tank .As for the standard transmission is does disappearing slowly, its not just the café , in these day for 1 manual sold 20 automatic are . Market change, now these day lots of people see car as a disposable goods, use it 3 year trade it and get another one. The market mostly see their vehicle as a mean of transport and take no pleasure or pride in it, car market had to adapt to it. You will still see some exception, some brand will continue to offer standard but at a certain cost.
I dont like manuals. I could tolerate it (and only just) in a rural area where I am. But not in a city.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
No computer control (except power limiting) can overcome peoples' stupid driving habits.
Coming soon to ALL vehicles. They will start with DSC. And then just limit power and then speed...
To "protect" us and the world...
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Obsolete for mainstream cars? No doubt. Obsolete for sports cars?
Going away soon. No NEED for sports anything. That wastes fuel and impacts the world.
No computer control (except power limiting) can overcome peoples' stupid driving habits.
Coming soon to ALL vehicles. They will start with DSC. And then just limit power and then speed...
To "protect" us and the world...
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Obsolete for mainstream cars? No doubt. Obsolete for sports cars?
Going away soon. No NEED for sports anything. That wastes fuel and impacts the world.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
I always wondered why there is such a push for automatic transmissions.
Laziness and stupidity, that's it. A well-designed MT is not an issue at all to drive in the worst traffic. Ive done it for a long time in places like Washington DC.
I always wondered why there is such a push for automatic transmissions.
Laziness and stupidity, that's it. A well-designed MT is not an issue at all to drive in the worst traffic. Ive done it for a long time in places like Washington DC.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: qship1996
Ferrari just released a new model sportscar.......automatic only, NO manual transmission offered- that says alot.
"sportscar"??? Isnt it their showoff touring car for folks who have too much money?
I think the true performance cars from most manufacturers still have MTs.
Ferrari just released a new model sportscar.......automatic only, NO manual transmission offered- that says alot.
"sportscar"??? Isnt it their showoff touring car for folks who have too much money?
I think the true performance cars from most manufacturers still have MTs.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: virtual
You will still see some exception, some brand will continue to offer standard but at a certain cost.
This is a good point. EVERY variant that an auto company sells has to be rated for MPG. These tests are likely a cash cow for somebody.
I think by now we have a decent enough trending for what is efficient and what is not. In Europe, IIRC, they pay based upon vehicle size and displacement. Likely not requiring a test for every engine and trans variant out there... Saving cost.
Perhaps a smarter way that also gives the buyers a significantly larger range of choices.
You will still see some exception, some brand will continue to offer standard but at a certain cost.
This is a good point. EVERY variant that an auto company sells has to be rated for MPG. These tests are likely a cash cow for somebody.
I think by now we have a decent enough trending for what is efficient and what is not. In Europe, IIRC, they pay based upon vehicle size and displacement. Likely not requiring a test for every engine and trans variant out there... Saving cost.
Perhaps a smarter way that also gives the buyers a significantly larger range of choices.
I guess the AT is just one more unneeded complication we will have shoved down our throats.
I wonder how much gas is wasted by stopping for green lights while all the AT's at the front of the pack slowly accelerated in too high of a gear?
Originally Posted By: labman
I guess the AT is just one more unneeded complication we will have shoved down our throats.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
I always wondered why there is such a push for automatic transmissions.
Laziness and stupidity, that's it. A well-designed MT is not an issue at all to drive in the worst traffic. Ive done it for a long time in places like Washington DC.
You guys are funny. Uneeded? We don't NEED a modern transmission at all. Heck,we won't need V6s, V8s, 4 cylinders, etc. We don't NEED cars at all. We can walk. Automatic has been around since the very early 20th century. It's only been getting more popular recently. It isn't being "shoved down our throats" (for the majority, at least) they WANT it. Today, automatics are rated for higher MPGs than manuals, for the most part. Think about this, most people are ALREADY bad drivers, without the distraction of a MT. Would you really want to put these yahoos in a car where they have to do something more complicated than mash the go and stop pedals and turn?
Personally, I don't care if MT is offered or not. I probably won't ever own one, I like my automatics just fine. Maybe if I ever got a sports car, and even then, I imagine it would only be on an RX-8 so the engine lasts longer. But the truth is, autos and DCT autos are taking over. I very much doubt Standard will be available in the United states for very much longer. My mom, and grandfather testify that if they lived in the country, they might consider getting a Manual. But they said "city" driving, as well as stop and go on the highway I would imagine, would be extremely tiring on a manual car.
I guess the AT is just one more unneeded complication we will have shoved down our throats.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
I always wondered why there is such a push for automatic transmissions.
Laziness and stupidity, that's it. A well-designed MT is not an issue at all to drive in the worst traffic. Ive done it for a long time in places like Washington DC.
You guys are funny. Uneeded? We don't NEED a modern transmission at all. Heck,we won't need V6s, V8s, 4 cylinders, etc. We don't NEED cars at all. We can walk. Automatic has been around since the very early 20th century. It's only been getting more popular recently. It isn't being "shoved down our throats" (for the majority, at least) they WANT it. Today, automatics are rated for higher MPGs than manuals, for the most part. Think about this, most people are ALREADY bad drivers, without the distraction of a MT. Would you really want to put these yahoos in a car where they have to do something more complicated than mash the go and stop pedals and turn?
Personally, I don't care if MT is offered or not. I probably won't ever own one, I like my automatics just fine. Maybe if I ever got a sports car, and even then, I imagine it would only be on an RX-8 so the engine lasts longer. But the truth is, autos and DCT autos are taking over. I very much doubt Standard will be available in the United states for very much longer. My mom, and grandfather testify that if they lived in the country, they might consider getting a Manual. But they said "city" driving, as well as stop and go on the highway I would imagine, would be extremely tiring on a manual car.
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Look at the trend.
Fly-by-wire gas pedals, clutches, and brakes.
No direct uncontrolled input by the driver.
Auto trannys are surely getting more prominent, but they can actually get better performance . How long they last is another story.
I love manual trannys.
Fly-by-wire gas pedals, clutches, and brakes.
No direct uncontrolled input by the driver.
Auto trannys are surely getting more prominent, but they can actually get better performance . How long they last is another story.
I love manual trannys.
Subaru has fought to keep stick shifts in their AWD cars, even coming out with a more expensive/complicated center diff compared to their auto cars. Good for them. Compare to the vibe/matrix that has stick 2wds only.
I think it's not so much CAFE as other emissions junk. My 00 saturn has different programming from my 95 that leaves the idle higher (dashpot) between shifts. Pretty much every upshift isn't synched so the clutch gets a little more wear. I could sit in neutral for a couple seconds while the revs drop but that's not how I drive.
Back even in the 80s you'd see differences in emissions gear for stick vs auto cars, like EGR valves on the stick shift ones. Since one could lug a stick and not an auto, one could produce gobs of NOx which had to be overcome somehow.
I like pickup truck sticks too... there's no cable linkage like your typical FWD transaxle setup and I can "feel" the gears better after 100k of slop sets in. Also one usually gets a torquey enough motor for smooth starts. The long lever makes me feel like I'm driving a huge dump truck too.
I think it's not so much CAFE as other emissions junk. My 00 saturn has different programming from my 95 that leaves the idle higher (dashpot) between shifts. Pretty much every upshift isn't synched so the clutch gets a little more wear. I could sit in neutral for a couple seconds while the revs drop but that's not how I drive.
Back even in the 80s you'd see differences in emissions gear for stick vs auto cars, like EGR valves on the stick shift ones. Since one could lug a stick and not an auto, one could produce gobs of NOx which had to be overcome somehow.
I like pickup truck sticks too... there's no cable linkage like your typical FWD transaxle setup and I can "feel" the gears better after 100k of slop sets in. Also one usually gets a torquey enough motor for smooth starts. The long lever makes me feel like I'm driving a huge dump truck too.
If they get rid of manual transmissions I'll give up on cars and start riding a bike.... well until the New World Order forces autos on bikes too
Seriously though, on larger cars like trucks, sure. On my Forester, as eljefino stated, manual is too good. I like being in *COMPLETE* control of my car. No auto provides that nifty feature.
Seriously though, on larger cars like trucks, sure. On my Forester, as eljefino stated, manual is too good. I like being in *COMPLETE* control of my car. No auto provides that nifty feature.
Auto transmissions suck big time.
Autotragic! but i just rode in a friends 2009 M3. that thing is 4000 lbs, 414 hp but 295 torque. 7 speed auto it was sweet, milli-second shifts and just smooth power. also handled crisp and sharp. doesn't have the torque of a vette but it turns extremely well, couldn't believe it was 800 lbs heavier than a vette
I will completely write off owning certain cars due to lack of manual trans being offered. I hate the fact that I really like some cars but they're not ever gonna be in my driveway if they're automatic.
I wish Europe could lead by example here.. Automatics are so rare over there in most every-day level cars. I love that!
I think ppl who drive 5 speeds are often better drivers too. A lot of ppl (I've noticed) who refuse to learn 5 speed don't even care as much about actually being a good driver.
Although it does depend on the application. If I were going to buy a pickup, I'd look for one in manual, but when one I liked wasn't found (which is what would happen) I'd end up buying an automatic. Just the way it is, in that market.
I wish Europe could lead by example here.. Automatics are so rare over there in most every-day level cars. I love that!
I think ppl who drive 5 speeds are often better drivers too. A lot of ppl (I've noticed) who refuse to learn 5 speed don't even care as much about actually being a good driver.
Although it does depend on the application. If I were going to buy a pickup, I'd look for one in manual, but when one I liked wasn't found (which is what would happen) I'd end up buying an automatic. Just the way it is, in that market.
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