Make-up oil and UOA - how bad will it skew?

[sir1900]

After 5000 miles on my 2008 Honda Accord I4, I checked the oil and noticed it was at the min level. So I added a quart of PP 5/20 to bring it to where it should be. I am at 30% oil life right now.

At 30% OL, will it greatly impact the UOA (poitively or negatively) when I send it in for analysis? I intend to change the oil at 5 or 10% OL

I also noticed that the majority of the used oil analysis, no makeup oil is added. Is the oil level checked regularly or is it often ignored?

 

[addyguy]

It will somewhat, for sure, but you shouldn't run an engine low on oil, so you sorta don't have a choice but to top-up.

The closer you top-off to doing a used oil analysis, the worse it affects the results. Topping off now, and running to 0% on your OLM will give fairly accurate results......

 

[DeeAgeaux]

My 03 Accord I-4 did not need any makeup oil for 68k miles.

I almost stopped checking my oil becuase it was always at max capacity.

Last week I added 1/2 quart after 5K miles.

I almost always drive "city" or "stop'go LA freeway" miles.

Recently I have been driving at regular highway speeds for sustained periods. So maybe it was fuel dilution that kept the oil at its peak?

 

[EagleFTE]

I saw some test results probably a few years ago that inadvertantly showed that make up oil adds a boost to the rest of the oil's life much more than you would think. I would say to get an accurate reading from a used oil analysis with respect to oil life you should avoid make up oil. I would think it would skew the data. But if one was trying to demonstrate that oil xyz really holds up booster shots would be one way to do it.

 

[sir1900]

I was shocked to see the dipstick that low on oil. My 2004 V6 Accord doesn't consume an ounce of oil and I am often pushing the pedal to metal in that car. In my 2008 Accord, I don't drive it too hard and occasionally I will have it at 75-80mph on the freeway, but yet I am needing to add oil. I've read on other message boards that it is not unusual to be adding a quart every 1000 miles. I think that is B.S.

That is true, I have no choice but to add some oil. So I will more than likely push it until close to 0% to get a more accurate reading for a used oil analysis.

 

[Gary Allan]

Just note it on the UOA. You'll just add enough fudge factor to cover any interpretation that will be given here. It will most likely fall in a given zone even if you factor dilution factors (for the metal and contaminant numbers) and you'll do the same with stuff like fuel, flashpoint, TBN ..etc.

You'll tend to see posters that don't like trusting the OLM taking the dilution factor to extreme ..citing that without the make up oil you would have seriously damaged your engine due to following the Wizard of Oz box. The other end of it might not be quite as bad since there will probably be a ceiling to how much one can go in the other direction.

I suspect it will fall into some noise level and.. even factoring the make up oil in adaptive view, it will be fine.

 

[addyguy]

2004 Honda Accord EX V6
Pennzoil Platinum 5W20, Mobil 1 Oil Filter

Where the heck did you get a Mobil 1 oil filter in Canada?

They don't sell the here!

 

[Gary Allan]

Another Canadian filter smuggler caught by self incrimination

 

[sir1900]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
2004 Honda Accord EX V6
Pennzoil Platinum 5W20, Mobil 1 Oil Filter

Where the heck did you get a Mobil 1 oil filter in Canada?

They don't sell the here!


Wal-Mart
Minneapolis, Minnesota

Go Twins!!

 

[sir1900]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Another Canadian filter smuggler caught by self incrimination

OOPS

 

[mechanicx]

It seems like to me that while makeup oil might skew the results more favorably, if you car requires makeup oil, then it does and that's the condition your oil will actually be in regardless.

 

[Art_Vandelay]

Obviously the sump size is a big factor. Adding a quart to a 4 quart sump is replacing 25% of the oil.

There are debates about 10 part per million differences in used oil analysis that go on here. When you add a quart in the above scenario you are adding 250,000 parts per million of new oil to the sump.

 

[EagleFTE]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that sir1900 does nothing to correct being a quart low after 5000 miles. The one thing that he needs to do is top off or change the oil. But if he is spending $25 on a used oil analysis he has to consider what he wants to learn from that used oil analysis. He could take a sample prior to top off and see what the situation is after 5000 miles. He could take a sample and do an oil change, same used oil analysis. Or he could top off and wait another xxxx miles and do the used oil analysis. The third option will pump up the TBN for a while and have some other positive impacts. So it all boils down to what conclusions he wants to draw from the used oil analysis. The one thing he can't do is continue driving a Qt. low.

 

[sir1900]

Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
I don't think anyone is suggesting that sir1900 does nothing to correct being a quart low after 5000 miles. The one thing that he needs to do is top off or change the oil. But if he is spending $25 on a used oil analysis he has to consider what he wants to learn from that used oil analysis. He could take a sample prior to top off and see what the situation is after 5000 miles. He could take a sample and do an oil change, same used oil analysis. Or he could top off and wait another xxxx miles and do the used oil analysis. The third option will pump up the TBN for a while and have some other positive impacts. So it all boils down to what conclusions he wants to draw from the used oil analysis. The one thing he can't do is continue driving a Qt. low.


As soon as I discovered I was low on oil, I added a quart without hesitation. I am aware that running low on oil isn't very wise. The makeup oil came off of leftover oil from two previous changes. The stock, date and time of production in the makeup oil is the same as that of what is already in the engine.

The main goal I wish to achieve with a used oil analysis this time around is to see if the wear numbers have gone down at all. My previous two used oil analysis showed high Iron and Lead. Both those used oil analysis were using Mobil 1 5w20. This time around, I switched to PP 5/20 in the hopes of achieving better results.

I will probably end up doing a TBN simply because I have done so for the other 2 other used oil analysis. However, unless the oil consumption is getting worse, I will likely take it to 0% on the OLM before I change it out.

 

[mechtech2]

Of course you are going to throw off the UOA.
How could it not??

 

[sir1900]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Of course you are going to throw off the UOA.
How could it not??


Yes and I fully expect it to. But will it impact it greatly is the question -- I guess what is considered as "impact it greatly" would be rather subjective.

 

[EagleFTE]

If you just changed to PP it is quite possible that your consuption on Honda/PP will go down on the next change interval as it settles in. This has been seen before. If you wanted to use the UOA to confirm the oil life monitor in addition to looking at wear numbers I think the best bet is to do that on a subsequent run after the consumption has gone down (if it does). That way the top off would not skew the data.

 

[mechtech2]

You will have an appraisal of what is in your crankcase, no matter what.
But it can't tell you about the original oil's strengths and weaknesses.

 

[webfors]

A) Check your oil more often.

B) Establish a routine and be consistent with respect to topping off.

c) Then your used oil analysis will be as accurate as the next and provide relatively accurate trending.

used oil analysis are about trending IMHO. Without a consistent routine it's hard to establish a trend and get anything useful from a used oil analysis.

But yes, of course it will change the outcome of the used oil analysis had you not added any oil. Just make sure to note the top off details when you send the sample in.

 

[sir1900]

I just want to revive this thread here and ask another question regarding used oil analysis with makeup oil added.

As mentioned before in previous posts, my main concern would be iron and lead levels, which have been previously reported as high in the two used oil analysis I have received from Blackstone. If I change the oil out now, will I get an accurate measure of the amount of wear with the makeup oil added? Total makeup oil added is 1qt. Miles driven since the makeup oil added: approx. 1000.

I have also elected to not get a TBN as I know for sure the reading will be off as a result of the makeup oil. I think it would be a waste of money.

Thank you in advance.