Mag-Hytec cover/Amsoil/Friction Modifier?

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Gang, At 65,000, I plan to dump the axle fluids again [+ Trans & XFer Case] (they all will have about 50K on the fluids). I also plan to install a Mag-Hytec cover on the rear axle--it has a nice dipstick and it effectively doubles the fluid capacity. I am going with Amsoil 75W-140 in the rear and 75W-110 in the front. Silly question, but would I also need double the amount of Ford Friction Modifier in the rear axle? TIA for your thoughts...
 
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I would think that you would have to maintain the same ratio - whatever that comes out to be. Please post with the results because I'm interested in doing the same thing. I just wish Mag-Hytec would come out with a transmission pan for our truck.
 
[3] Limited Slip Identification: Letter & number on plate on door lock pillar. (Models W/ Traction-Lok Rear Axle Add 4 oz of friction modifier part no. C8AZ-19B546A (EST-M2C118-A) or equivalent) Straight off Amsoil's website. I am assuming that the apllication is your 2010 F-150. I would speculate that you would need the same ratio of friction mod to gear oil regardless of how many quarts you have in the diff. However, I would call Amsoil's tech line and ask.
 
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
I wouldn't add any friction modifier at first. Add it as needed to eliminate chatter. Amsoil gear oils are already limited slip.
^^^ I would go with that. I had a AAM in my dodge and a sterling in my ford..both required FM but I didn't need any with amsoil in the dodge and Redline in the ford. Why are you going with the 75w110 in the front? Do you do a lot of 4 wheeling?
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Nice cover. Yes on the friction modifier and yes on the same ratio that worked before.
Thanks Pablo - it did make sense to maintain the ratio. PS..I will send you a PM for more of the 75w-140 (did not order enough for the increase provided by the cover).
 
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Originally Posted By: rufushusky
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
I wouldn't add any friction modifier at first. Add it as needed to eliminate chatter. Amsoil gear oils are already limited slip.
^^^ I would go with that. I had a AAM in my dodge and a sterling in my ford..both required FM but I didn't need any with amsoil in the dodge and Redline in the ford. Why are you going with the 75w110 in the front? Do you do a lot of 4 wheeling?
The friction modifier is a requirement even with Amsoil; just was not sure that it was 1:1 (original versus increase)--it makes sense that it is. Yes, I do a fair amount of 4x4 in TX, CO, WY, and MT.
 
Originally Posted By: rufushusky
[quote=chevrofreak]Why are you going with the 75w110 in the front? Do you do a lot of 4 wheeling?
I was wondering why he is using 75W140 in the rear. Unless you are doing heavy towing in the summer, it's wasting power and fuel economy. The aluminum covers also dissipate heat well and make the ring & pinion run cooler. Another reason to go to 75W90.
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: rufushusky
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
I wouldn't add any friction modifier at first. Add it as needed to eliminate chatter. Amsoil gear oils are already limited slip.
^^^ I would go with that. I had a AAM in my dodge and a sterling in my ford..both required FM but I didn't need any with amsoil in the dodge and Redline in the ford. Why are you going with the 75w110 in the front? Do you do a lot of 4 wheeling?
The friction modifier is a requirement even with Amsoil; just was not sure that it was 1:1 (original versus increase)--it makes sense that it is. Yes, I do a fair amount of 4x4 in TX, CO, WY, and MT.
"AMSOIL Severe Gear is compatible with most limited-slip differentials. If limited-slip differential chatter occurs, add AMSOIL Slip-Lock™ friction modifier additive." From: http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/svo.aspx Not saying you won't need it, but it is not required and in my case...not needed.
 
Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Originally Posted By: rufushusky
[quote=chevrofreak]Why are you going with the 75w110 in the front? Do you do a lot of 4 wheeling?
I was wondering why he is using 75W140 in the rear. Unless you are doing heavy towing in the summer, it's wasting power and fuel economy. The aluminum covers also dissipate heat well and make the ring & pinion run cooler. Another reason to go to 75W90.
It came from the factory with 75w-140, so I do not think it would be a wise move to change to 75w-90. In addition, I do perform a lot of towing in high heat and for many miles so factory fill not withstanding, 75w-90 probably would not cut it...
 
I have had the Mag-Hytec cover on my '05 F-150 (10.25 rear axle) and can attest to it's utility. The dipstick is magnetic too, so you can regularly pull it and wipe off the ferrous fuzz. Have one on the '86 F-250 diesel as well (also 10.25 axle). I second the opinion that you should try the oil without adding FMs. Some FMs (the organic ones especially) reduce the oil's oxidative stability so you are better of in terms of oil health without it. If your LSD chatter, you can always add it later. Pablo: Can you tell us more about Amsoil's Slip-Lock?
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Pablo: Can you tell us more about Amsoil's Slip-Lock?
I second that request, since it is what I am now using as an additive. I always wondered if Amsoil just sub-contracted CRC for this, instead of manufacturing it themselves, since it comes in the same exact tube as their 'Equa-Torque' product. (Also interested in if it is organic or not, as I'm sure Jim wants to know.) Pabs??
 
What do you guys want to know? I'm pretty sure Amsoil doesn't package it themselves, but it's slightly different than Equa-Torque. Define "organic" - meaning carbon based (they all are) or plant/animal derived? About 50% of Slip-Lock is petrochemical, with stable amines and synthetic oil based phosphates. Similar but different % than Equa-Torque. Slip-Lock used correctly will not reduce the oil's oxidative stability. I thought the OP already determined he needed it? Anyway, if my assumption is wrong then try it without and then add half the amount, then if still chattering at the same amount as originally used.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Correct - you don't want 75W-90 in this application.
You would actually have to measure the operating temperature under loaded conditions to know for sure. The Mag-Hytec has a place for a temp gauge just for this. Running the thick oil wont hurt anything though, just reduce driven powen and fuel economy. Probably equivalent to running a 10W40 oil in the engine.
 
Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
Running the thick oil wont hurt anything though, just reduce driven powen and fuel economy. Probably equivalent to running a 10W40 oil in the engine.
How would you calculate this? I would venture to guess that it is nearly indiscernible and that driving variations would more than surpass any loss/gain by using thicker/thinner oil in the axle. I towed over 6K miles last summer fully loaded and in 100+ heat. I trust that Ford has done the vernacular and I will stay with 75w-140.
 
I towed over 6K miles last summer fully loaded and in 100+ heat. I trust that Ford has done the vernacular and I will stay with 75w-140. That's a definate stick with the 75W140
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
How would you calculate this? I would venture to guess that it is nearly indiscernible and that driving variations would more than surpass any loss/gain by using thicker/thinner oil in the axle. I towed over 6K miles last summer fully loaded and in 100+ heat. I trust that Ford has done the vernacular and I will stay with 75w-140.
All of you should check here: Axle Facts and look around. My opinion is that gear oil viscosity should follow use/axle oil temp. A truck that is used lightly will have low axle oil temps and could therefore be fine in the 90 grade range. In one of the test shown on the Lubrizol site linked above is a comparison of axle efficiency between a 80W90 and a 75W90 and there were significant efficiency gains just between those two grades. There are other tests that show a greater difference between the 90 and 140 grades. A typical 140 grade has approximately the same viscosity at 250F as a 90 grade does at 210F (the viscosity rating temp). At 210F, the 140 grade is 37 percent thicker than the 90 grade and this offers a significant increase in rolling resistance. Since we are talking F150 axles, I can say that my own F-150HD (8200 gvw, 10.25 rear axle) has a diff temp gauge installed. Solo, at around 85F ambient, the rear axle temp stabilizes at 170-180F @ 65 mph on level ground At that temp, the 90 grade in the axle is running at approximately 140 grade viscosity (23.8 cSt). A 140 grade at that temp is running at just under 250 grade (39cSt). These are all calculations made on Mobil 1 gear oils, 75W90 vs 75W140 using the Widman calculator. The 80W90 mineral oil I use is about midway between the two synthetics in terms of viscosity using these various calculations but still delivers less drag than the 75W140 synthetic. So, if your truck runs below 210F virtually all the time, you are wasting energy running a 140 grade oil. The only way to know this is by installing a diff temp gauge. If you go to a Mag-Hytec cover, you will find a port is there for a sender. You will also find the Mag-Hytec will knock a good 15F off the diff oil temp no matter what oil you use. In may tests, a syn vs a mineral (same base grade) was worth another 15F or so. The highest diff oil temp I've seen thus far in my truck is 225F, so day to day 90 grade is my best choice. I generally don't tow long distances in the F-150 (under 100 miles) but if anyone can match my 36-ton tow record, let me know (two loaded grain wagons). I regularly tow a single fully loaded 350 bushel KillBros grain wagon... that 10.5 tons plus another ton for the wagon. As gnarly as that sounds, I can only legally do 25 mph (farm equipment) so, surprisingly, diff oil temps don't get all that high. At any load, diff temp goes up with speed. To paraphrase J.B. Books' "If you needs six, load six!" Comment, if you need 140, then by all means run it. If you don't, you are simply wasting energy. Finally, if you want to spend $22, order SAE paper 2005-01-3893 "The Effect of Heavy Loads on Light Duty Vehicle Axle Operating Temperature." This was a preliminary paper, I think, to some testing Lubrizol has been doing with lower viscosity gear oils that are highly additivized. They claim a 6.8 reduction loss of driveshaft torque when using a 75W85 gear oil vs a 75W90, and a 2.0 percent increase in fuel economy. Also, gear oil temps were reduced 40 degrees on a new axle. The light oil also passes ASTM test standards for full load axle durability tests with results similar to a 75W140 oil. Details on this test can be found in the Lubrizol white paper, "Lubrizol Tow-Proof Technology Imroves Durability and Cuts Fuel Consumption." Google it, I don't have a link.
 
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