Mack Truck laying off 100s in PA & MD

[OLEJOE]

What does all of this rant have to do with diesel motor oil ? Sounds like the whole thread is off topic.ie political

 

[Astro14]

What does all of this rant have to do with diesel motor oil ? Sounds like the whole thread is off topic.ie political

I’ve been watching, it’s not political.

But the discussion has little to do with diesel oil, so, on that we agree.

Where would you suggest we move it?

 

[OLEJOE]

I’ve been watching, it’s not political.

But the discussion has little to do with diesel oil, so, on that we agree.

Where would you suggest we move it?

Off topic

 

[Astro14]

Off topic

Done.

Cheers

 

[SwampSurvivor]

They're just rugged looking volvos.

Bring back the R model and all of it's variants!

 

[Dave Hess]

To an extant, but not a major driver across the board. What has caused the export of the mostly commodity manufacturing has been primarily the costs of domestic production, as well as our long burdensome regulatory environment, tort liability and risk environment, and to some extent the whipsaw effects of differing administrations' economic policies every 4 or 8 years. US labor is very expensive, especially in the States with the strong economies, and some industries have been stagnated if not all but driven out of the US by environmental regulations over the past 25 years or so

We cannot afford to produce many consumer and other low priced goods domestically, just cannot. No amount of tariffs (or tax increases mostly on the individual consumer, that is what tariffs really are) will completely reverse that. The numbers do not work, 3-5x for an iPhone for example. We can and do still make key goods, critical machinery, defense, etc. and, much more important than just manufacturing, we innovate.

Tariffs are a useful trade tool but used as a scalpel, not a cudgel.

I've had executive positions in several global companies, large and small, and 'made my bones' back in the day leading early offshoring and outsourcing efforts....didn't personally enjoy it, but it was necessary and the right thing to do benefiting the Companies and our US (and global) workers through increased profitability allowing better comp, benefits, opportunities for advancement and equity appreciation.

Let's all read up on Smoot-Hawley again.

I do NOT like hearing all the CEOs parroting the “Resilient Economy” garbage talk when there’s sooo many debt bubbles and global economy was slowing down BEFORE these recent tariffs.

 

[Dave Hess]

Maybe Airbus builds a factory in China.

Similar to the factory in Alabama.

Airbus factory in China is a good idea if they will be buying so many aircraft over the next 10, 20, 50 years….

 

[JeffKeryk]

So yes you have a very good grasp of the problems that got us here, but don't seem to have realistic suggestions for how to move forward, other than stating you don't like current path?

Do you approve of raising taxes on consumption? Because that is exactly what the tariffs are; one of the biggest tax increases in our history.
And you know who that hurts the most.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I do NOT like hearing all the CEOs parroting the “Resilient Economy” garbage talk when there’s sooo many debt bubbles and global economy was slowing down BEFORE these recent tariffs.

History teaches us the economy is cyclical. Add in the self inflicted wound, worldwide tariffs, and you might have a devastating blow.
If you were a CEO right now, would you put resources into growth with the worldwide uncertainty?

You are seeing investors pull back and horde cash. Expect CEOs to do the same.

 

[Pew]

During my short time in the oil fields of Wyoming, I obtained a class B CDL, for driving "straight trucks"......which is to say trucks without trailers equipped with airbrakes.......

I asked the same question as you did to our company field mechanic. His opinion was that Mack trucks were built like tanks, and had very few issues. Several crews had at least one Mack Truck in their fleet, we had two. Built better for off road conditions. He did also say that Mack parts were not common between Mack and lets say Kenworth, which was the other truck brand we had. Mack used proprietary stuff like brake lines, and other such parts, that did not cross over with Kenworth, or freightliner or Peterbuilt. Many of those truck use generic parts to allow repair easy on the road, and easy for the mechanic.

Around where I live, many of the dump truck used to deliver gravel and such were Mack, but slowly have changed to Western Stars, of various models, like the 49X.

Again, I am not a truck expert, just relaying what one had told me.

OTR trucks are much more common, and Macks market share in OTR has been, by in large ,nonexistent. They are it seems changing that to get into the OTR market more agressively. Maybe this has to do with the layoffs.

That's exactly what my truck driving friend says too, the used to be built decently rugged but no parts are interchangable. I used to only see them as dump trucks or other utility trucks like garbage trucks but it seems like they have a otr version of that looks suspiciously like Volvos.

 

[Dave Hess]

History teaches us the economy is cyclical. Add in the self inflicted wound, worldwide tariffs, and you might have a devastating blow.
If you were a CEO right now, would you put resources into growth with the worldwide uncertainty?

You are seeing investors pull back and horde cash. Expect CEOs to do the same.

I agree with everything you wrote.

But I also feel it’s better to allow a ‘natural’ recession to happen than to keep artificially postponing it.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Do you approve of raising taxes on consumption? Because that is exactly what the tariffs are; one of the biggest tax increases in our history.
And you know who that hurts the most.

Yes, 100%. A consumption tax is the only fair tax. When you tax labor, its effectively turning me into a slave. I have to work 4 months a year to pay the federal government, and 8 months to pay myself. Should be considered slavery. Where is the 13th amendment? So yes, tax consumption by all means. I can choose to buy or not buy something. I cannot realistically choose not to work.

Going even further, tax on labor should be illegal. If my employer agrees to pay me $20 an hour, then the market has determined my hour is worth $20. There is no profit. Its a like / kind exchange. Business and investors only pay tax on their profit. I pay tax on all my wages. Income tax assumes my time is valueless, when the market has actually determined its worth.

On the flip side, Nike decides to make their $200 shoes in Bangladesh for $10 rather than USA for $50. So there should be a $40 tax on the Nike Shoes. If Nike wants to sell the shoes now for $240, go for it. However I doubt they will, because if Nike already felt they could get $240 for the shoes they would already be charging that much. If people are stupid enough to now pay $240 because "tariff' then they deserve to part from their money.

Plus, majority of necessities are domestically derived - food, housing, healthcare, education. There might be some small foreign inputs, but not much. So if people pay more for trinkets at Walmart, there problem.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I agree with everything you wrote.

But I also feel it’s better to allow a ‘natural’ recession to happen than to keep artificially postponing it.

So global tariffs are the answer?

 

[Dave Hess]

So global tariffs are the answer?

No.

 

[Frankrank]

So global tariffs are the answer?

Tariffs could be the answer. The issue is implementing them before the country has the production capacity to make up for imports. It took 60 years for the situation we have today. They are not going to reverse it in 6 months

 

[JeffKeryk]

Yes, 100%. A consumption tax is the only fair tax. When you tax labor, its effectively turning me into a slave. I have to work 4 months a year to pay the federal government, and 8 months to pay myself. Should be considered slavery. Where is the 13th amendment? So yes, tax consumption by all means. I can choose to buy or not buy something. I cannot realistically choose not to work.

Going even further, tax on labor should be illegal. If my employer agrees to pay me $20 an hour, then the market has determined my hour is worth $20. There is no profit. Its a like / kind exchange. Business and investors only pay tax on their profit. I pay tax on all my wages. Income tax assumes my time is valueless, when the market has actually determined its worth.

On the flip side, Nike decides to make their $200 shoes in Bangladesh for $10 rather than USA for $50. So there should be a $40 tax on the Nike Shoes. If Nike wants to sell the shoes now for $240, go for it. However I doubt they will, because if Nike already felt they could get $240 for the shoes they would already be charging that much. If people are stupid enough to now pay $240 because "tariff' then they deserve to part from their money.

Plus, majority of necessities are domestically derived - food, housing, healthcare, education. There might be some small foreign inputs, but not much. So if people pay more for trinkets at Walmart, there problem.

100% disagree. Consumption based hurts the people who can afford it least. If you wanna see the economy boom, support buying power, not handcuff it.

A consumption tax can benefit the wealthy if it replaces an income based system that does not tax, or lessens the tax, on savings.

This also assumes cost of goods remains constant, which of course it won't if you enforce tariffs.

 

[JeffKeryk]

No.

So do you agree or disagree with the current policy? I was under the impression most here seem to.

 

[SC Maintenance]

100% disagree. Consumption based hurts the people who can afford it least. If you wanna see the economy boom, support buying power, not handcuff it.

A consumption tax can benefit the wealthy if it replaces an income based system that does not tax, or lessens the tax, on savings.

This also assumes cost of goods remains constant, which of course it won't if you enforce tariffs.

Do you realize that 50% of all US consumption is made by households that are in the top 10% of earnings. The bottom 90% consume the other 50%. So if you taxed consumption it would be way more progressive than current taxes.

But its not just theory. Most Euro countries have a VAT - which is a consumption tax. They have socialized health care and lower cost higher ed and many other social programs - paid for by consumption taxes.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Tariffs could be the answer. The issue is implementing them before the country has the production capacity to make up for imports. It took 60 years for the situation we have today. They are not going to reverse it in 6 months

Start with education and let others sew my Levis. And do not make enemies of our most important trading partners.
Targeted tariffs are key tools. That's my 2 cents.

 

[GON]

Tariffs could be the answer. The issue is implementing them before the country has the production capacity to make up for imports. It took 60 years for the situation we have today. They are not going to reverse it in 6 months

Not even sure tafiffs are the center of gravity.

Seems the trade deficit, U.S. debt, and interest payments on the federal debt are the issues, and they are catastrophic issues.

Every action needs to directly impact those three things (1) trade deficit, (2) U.S. federal debt, (3) interest on the U.S. debt. Comparing the interest rate of German government bonds to U.S. government bonds clearly demonstrates the U.S. is financially about to be in a hole that one can't dig out of. No need for tariffs if the dollar becomes worthless, and imports even with zero tariffs will be for the very few.

Without addressing those three items, financial failure will occur. Not if, but when.