Mack Truck laying off 100s in PA & MD

[4WD]

https://www.ttnews.com/articles/volvo-earnings-q3-2024

 

[SC Maintenance]

If globalism benefitted you, current is worst thing ever.

If you were the guy who's job got shipped to Mexico / China / wherever, then your tickled pink.

Everyone talking their book.

If you had told me Mack went out of business years ago, I would have believed you. Looks like the long decline continues - now they have new excuse.

 

[4WD]

If globalism benefitted you, current is worst thing ever.

If you were the guy who's job got shipped to Mexico / China / wherever, then your tickled pink.

Everyone talking their book.

If you had told me Mack went out of business years ago, I would have believed you. Looks like the long decline continues - now they have new excuse.

Didn’t they break ground for a new plant in Mexico?

 

[edyvw]

Can these tariffs help American companies, farmers and energy? Absolutely by leveling the playing field. These tariffs are retaliatory tariffs for what American products have been having to pay for decades. The one sided tariffs are the reason for the decline in American manufacturing and the import/export deficits. If your business is set up to buy the cheapest products you can find for the cheapest price, then yes your business is going to suffer. The US has gotten to the point of importing just about everything we need to be operational while companies continue offshoring manufacturing and jobs.

No.
For throusands of reasons.
There are several issues with tariffs.
1. The formula for tariffs is absolutely bonkers.
2. Tariffs were not nearly as high as they are portrayed (I will come back to China later). But on average, tariffs are 1-3%, and we do the same. Then there are quotas, which we also do. That is why the WTO was formed. To hash out this stuff.
3. People got themselves thinking that we can teleport ourselves to 1955. It ain't happening, and if they wanted to teleport themselves, they would teleport themselves back 100 times faster. As we can accuse Mack or any other company of mismanaging and just blaming tariffs, we can also accuse numerous towns and cities for mismanaging their economies and not recognizing shifts in the economic environment.
4. We imposed tariffs on things we don't make! It is dumb and proves how economically illiterate people are. We imposed tariffs on vanilla, coffee etc., things that CANNOT grow here! That is a direct tax on consumers. Also, those things come from poor countries. What in the name of God will we export to Lesotho? Boeing 777-9? The total GDP of the country is worth 5 Boeing's 777-9. A trade deficit with one country does not mean things are bad bcs. we make it up elsewhere. But yeah, I cannot wait for vanilla producers in the US or Boeing's being exported to Lesotho.
5. We are being hit with tariffs on stuff we do export: airplanes, avionics, jet engines, software services, financial services, social media etc. We just propped COMAC. China stopped Boeing deliveries, and guess who is the short-term winner? Airbus. Guess who is the long-term winner? COMAC. CCP will just make companies buy COMAC, and they will have to, no questions asked. They have an excuse now, and I think hit to Boeing might be 8,000+ airplanes over 10yrs. And yeah, phone call from China is not coming.
6. Now, China is and was an issue. China should be targeted where it really hurts. You want to invest in the US? You cannot unless it is joint venture, just like they condition us. TikTok was an issue until it was not. Where are we on that? But we decided just to put a blanket tariff on a country that is the biggest single importer of our airplanes, software, avionics, etc.

 

[Sumboodie]

Mack quit being Mack 20 years ago.

Now they are crappy cheap Vulvos with Mack badges.

 

[Bubblewhale]

To be fair, it probably seems like the industry is tightening down anyway. I have a couple of pals at PACCAR and they'd gotten the pinch from upper management to reduce costs recently.

 

[AZjeff]

But we decided just to put a blanket tariff on a country that is the biggest single importer of our airplanes, software, avionics, etc.

No WE didn’t. I didn’t did you? Just saying. You have a grasp of the big picture issues, I don’t have a clue but there has to be a way to correct whatever is wrong that doesn’t look like a chainsaw massacre during a tornado.

 

[Jerrysends]

Late stage capitalism.

 

[edyvw]

No WE didn’t. I didn’t did you? Just saying. You have a grasp of the big picture issues, I don’t have a clue but there has to be a way to correct whatever is wrong that doesn’t look like a chainsaw massacre during a tornado.

Yes, we did. We are part of this ride.
Even if you correct it now, the damage done is astonishing.
What I am really afraid of is that this will undermine the monetary system as we know it after WWII. The average American was getting a pretty good deal being the reserve currency, having pretty much all finances going through American institutions, etc.

 

[Dave Hess]

And makes it’s first airplane in 3 years? 5?

Like all the manufacturing coming back to the US, when and how?? Factories aren’t instant.

Example: the giant microchip factory in phoenix broke ground in June 2021 and started production last year.

The way their gov is the factory could be built in 1 year TOPS.

24/7/365 workers on job site unlike the very slow construction pace here in the USA.

Maybe this is a possibility… ?

 

[Jetronic]

No.
For throusands of reasons.
There are several issues with tariffs.
1. The formula for tariffs is absolutely bonkers.
2. Tariffs were not nearly as high as they are portrayed (I will come back to China later). But on average, tariffs are 1-3%, and we do the same. Then there are quotas, which we also do. That is why the WTO was formed. To hash out this stuff.
3. People got themselves thinking that we can teleport ourselves to 1955. It ain't happening, and if they wanted to teleport themselves, they would teleport themselves back 100 times faster. As we can accuse Mack or any other company of mismanaging and just blaming tariffs, we can also accuse numerous towns and cities for mismanaging their economies and not recognizing shifts in the economic environment.
4. We imposed tariffs on things we don't make! It is dumb and proves how economically illiterate people are. We imposed tariffs on vanilla, coffee etc., things that CANNOT grow here! That is a direct tax on consumers. Also, those things come from poor countries. What in the name of God will we export to Lesotho? Boeing 777-9? The total GDP of the country is worth 5 Boeing's 777-9. A trade deficit with one country does not mean things are bad bcs. we make it up elsewhere. But yeah, I cannot wait for vanilla producers in the US or Boeing's being exported to Lesotho.
5. We are being hit with tariffs on stuff we do export: airplanes, avionics, jet engines, software services, financial services, social media etc. We just propped COMAC. China stopped Boeing deliveries, and guess who is the short-term winner? Airbus. Guess who is the long-term winner? COMAC. CCP will just make companies buy COMAC, and they will have to, no questions asked. They have an excuse now, and I think hit to Boeing might be 8,000+ airplanes over 10yrs. And yeah, phone call from China is not coming.
6. Now, China is and was an issue. China should be targeted where it really hurts. You want to invest in the US? You cannot unless it is joint venture, just like they condition us. TikTok was an issue until it was not. Where are we on that? But we decided just to put a blanket tariff on a country that is the biggest single importer of our airplanes, software, avionics, etc.

And on top of that, the european market for boeings has also been alienated, and cost of planes increased. Maybe Boeing can sell their planes to Russia and Belarus, not many other potential customers remaining.

 

[97prizm]

I have personal experience w/ two small businesses affected by the proposed and shifting tariffs, one affected directly and one indirectly. Both are having to shift their operations and may even have to reduce staff; one gearing up for significantly higher cost of goods that must be passed on to consumers leading to reduced sales as well as their customers' decrease in disposable income (overall costs and decline in equities) and the other having to find new customers (intentionally try to limit customer base to assure service excellency) again due to anticipated business decrease. End result is that both businesses may reduce their own spending and may reduce staff leading to the severed employees spending less in their communities, on and on.... I also heard about an IPO and potential acquisitions being tabled due to the market volatility. Postponing an IPO is gruesomely costly as is the lessened availability within the capital markets.

This tariff turmoil is very real, costly, hurts all consumers and will be very damaging if allowed to continue...

As far as decoupling from China, that low cost manufacturing helped drive our economic boom and if we don't utilize it, someone else surely will. Addressing supply chain concentration in China needs to be done, but they should and will always play a part in our economy....we just need to leverage that as appropriate.

The Wall Street Journal has had the best coverage of the current situation.

To some extent Chinese goods have become more expensive as China sees an emerging middle class. I know that a few years ago Foxconn was freaking out when some other jobs that weren't factory jobs and were paying higher down the street.

 

[4WD]

If people can get off ideology for a few seconds - I posted several pieces on how Mack has been in decline since Volvo and before - they don’t even make their HD units that were once popular …

 

[4WD]

I do hope - if locked - this thread remains accessible …

 

[Dave Hess]

The ones who will be getting on unemployment, not buying durable goods or any discretionary purchases, not frequenting local restaurants and other local businesses causing them to cut back, and those laid off folks will not be.....

I do not want to sound like an academic, but we really need to make basic or even not so basic economics mandatory in high school. No one should be able to graduate without at least a basic understanding of what led to the last two centuries economic crises and wars, which are interrelated. Off my soapbox now

Homework assignment:

Watch CNBC for 3 hours and write a summary of what you learned from Jim Cramer.

 

[GON]

Global Economy was slowing down before these recent tariffs.

Daily Job Cuts . Com

Rates for independent truckers and hot shots have been under their costs to operate for over two years. The market is over saturated with trucks. It will take multiple years of bankruptcies and reduction in operating trucks before new truck sales become a sustainable industry.

I love to drive, have a CDL Class A, and would have loved to be a independent truck driver as a new chapter in my life. Doing the math, a independent truck driver more often than not is currently operating at a loss per mile (with the exception of special contracts). I wasn't go to spend low six figures on a tractor, to operate at a loss.

 

[GON]

Supply Chain Disruption was the buzzword for 2020-2023

Tariffs is the new buzzword for lots of CEOs in 2025.
CEOs will NOT say economy was slowing before these tariffs.

Do tariffs hurt American companies ?
Yes, 100% these tariffs hurt American companies competing on global stage.

Will Boeing ever sell another 737, 777 or 787 to China ever again ?
I don’t know what will happen.

Maybe China says Airbus only from this point forward….

China's national subsidized mainline aircraft manufacturer years ago stole all of Boeings and Airbus designs. No reason for Boeing or Airbus in China as a new aircraft supplier. Yes, widebody not yet ready by Comac, but they have the propriotary Boieng and Airbus wide body design plans, so that is just a matter of time. Tariffs have zero to do with this on a MACRO basis.

China stole the aircraft plans, subsidized the aircraft manufacturing with interest paid by American taxpayers on U.S. debt. And the funny thing- not one global organization will stand up to China for stealing their propritary information and trade secrets. Very sad to blame any of this on twenty day old tariffs.

 

[wings&wheels]

Homework assignment:

Watch CNBC for 3 hours and write a summary of what you learned from Jim Cramer.

He gives me a headache, thanks but I'll stick to the WSJ, Bloomberg Forbes and, when I really need to sleep, The Economist

 

[SC Maintenance]

Didn’t they break ground for a new plant in Mexico?

So I had to go look and your right - but I did not even realize that Mack has been owned by Volvo Truck for 20 years.

Which explains the lack of seeing any of there trucks - I am sure Volvo would rather sell Volvo. So Mack is the Pontiac of the big truck world I guess?

 

[Dave Hess]

I just don’t like now CEOs will now blame tariffs for lower sales / revenue profit.

McDonalds will probably blame tariffs for lower sales and not admit the crap fast food they’re selling is overpriced, loaded with sodium, fat, cholesterol, artificial ingredients / additives, etc….

McDonalds - French Fries have like 12 ingredients….

No wonder I get a bad headache after (mistakenly) eating this junk food.


Tariffs is the new CEO buzzword for 2025.

Off Topic:
90% of all the the parts I need for my small business is from outside the USA.