Machine Shop Questions

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The Critic

The Critic

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My daily driver, the 2011 Prius, decided to blow its headgasket at 185k miles. Apparently this is a somewhat common issue on the newer Toyota 1.8s (2ZR-FE and 2ZR-FXE engines). Usually we install used engines for situations like this, but due to the oil consumption issues with this engine family, I have decided to replace the headgasket since my engine does not consume any oil.

As part of the headgasket replacement, I plan to send the head out to a machine shop for inspection, resurfacing and a valve job (if-needed). I do not have any experience with using machine shops for this type of work. My questions are:

1) What kinds of questions should I be asking to ensure that I am selecting a competent machine shop?
2) I know this will vary greatly by geographic area, but what is the typical price for a cylinder head inspection and resurfacing?

I contacted a machine shop that a friend's shop recommended. The person at the machine shop seemed to be familiar with these engines. I asked him for a typical-to-worse case scenario quote to make the head "as perfect as possible," and he told me to expect to pay something in the $3-$400 ballpark. The number did not seem outrageous to me but I am curious if that is the average rate.

Thanks.
 
This method DOES actually work

However, the best way to do this is with a VERY thick plate of glass with emery paper and light oil/kerosene (or diesel) mix to wash away the metal grit. Don't push down on the head - just slide it in a horizontal motion
 
Originally Posted by The Critic

1) What kinds of questions should I be asking to ensure that I am selecting a competent machine shop?
2) I know this will vary greatly by geographic area, but what is the typical price for a cylinder head inspection and resurfacing?


Thanks.

1- I usually check if they have any online reviews? Or recommendations on any of the web(or local)forums and if all positive - good to go.

2-Usually inspection is free and then if a resurfacing is needed, that's from $100-$150(from few years ago). Also, if any valves are needed or any seals, all that is extra and definitely labor can end up in $300-$400(or maybe more) range.

Sorry about the issue and hopefully it's not going to be super expensive. Good luck.
 
Originally Posted by KrisZ
If these engines are known to blow head gaskets, don't be surprised that after the head gasket job your engine starts consuming oil.
If you're in there already, a quick re-ring job might be beneficial.

You raise a good point. However, if I re-ring the engine, the engine needs to come out; a headgasket job can be done in-car. Which means pulling the inverter. So, there is a lot of extra labor, time and materials involved.

At 185k miles, I am inclined to make the car reliable, but not perfect.
 
In my experience, some engines start using oil after having the heads rebuilt. You may want to refresh the bottom end also.

Has anyone experienced this before?

Kris beat me!
 
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Plus, when you re-install, you may wish to coat the gasket with Hylomar. Whether or not you do this depends on the gasket surface materials and the actual condition of the surfaces ...

If the valves are all even color (exhausts the same, intakes the same) when you pull the head, it prolly does not need a valve job. If you have a long steel rule and you check the head lengthways and sight down it from end to end and it looks flat, it may be OK ...

Does your family make candy? If so, you have a flat marble or granite slab that will allow you to check head for warp-age. Lay it on the slab and use feeler gauges to check for slim gaps in the middle or at the ends. If it does not allow you to insert more than 0.010" feeler, it may torque down OK...

Have it inspected if any of these preliminary checks show an anomaly. But, if it's looking good and the gaskets are just aluminum faced, Hylomar the faces of the gasket, let dry to touch, and re-install.

Or, take pictures of what you have and show us? Many gaskets fail between cylinders due to fire ring erosion. That is something we need to look at together - where the fail was and why?
 
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Originally Posted by BrocLuno
Does your family make candy? If so, you have a flat marble or granite slab that will allow you to check head for warp-age. Lay it on the slab and use feeler gauges to check for slim gaps in the middle or at the ends. If it does not allow you to insert more than 0.010" feeler, it may torque down OK...
I never knew they used surface plates to make candy. Learn something new everyday.
 
$400 sounds like a worse case scenario. You may want to consider having it checked for flatness. If its good put it back on. Have it surfaced if it needs it. Getting the valves ground can go either good or bad depending on the shop. In the past I have had to redo head jobs because of poor machine work.
 
Originally Posted by BrocLuno
Plus, when you re-install, you may wish to coat the gasket with Hylomar. Whether or not you do this depends on the gasket surface materials and the actual condition of the surfaces ...

If the valves are all even color (exhausts the same, intakes the same) when you pull the head, it prolly does not need a valve job. If you have a long steel rule and you check the head lengthways and sight down it from end to end and it looks flat, it may be OK ...

Does your family make candy? If so, you have a flat marble or granite slab that will allow you to check head for warp-age. Lay it on the slab and use feeler gauges to check for slim gaps in the middle or at the ends. If it does not allow you to insert more than 0.010" feeler, it may torque down OK...

Have it inspected if any of these preliminary checks show an anomaly. But, if it's looking good and the gaskets are just aluminum faced, Hylomar the faces of the gasket, let dry to touch, and re-install.

Or, take pictures of what you have and show us? Many gaskets fail between cylinders due to fire ring erosion. That is something we need to look at together - where the fail was and why?


You are crazy if you think .010 variance is acceptable. I would want to see no more thank .003 MAX on a 4 cylinder alumnium head. Even that I feel is a bit much.

OP if you are in it this far I would absolutely have the head surfaced and a valve job.
 
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Originally Posted by GSCJR
In my experience, some engines start using oil after having the heads rebuilt. You may want to refresh the bottom end also.

Has anyone experienced this before?

Kris beat me!


I have seen it both ways, if the engine was using oil before due to bore/ring wear or sticking rings then sure blow by will probably be more. If the engine was tight and not an oil user then no its not going to be any different.

IIRC these Toyota engines use a PTFE coated MLS gasket that has some issues at higher miles, you must not use any sort of sealer on these or you will loose another HG quick and surface finish must be correct for this type of gasket, new bolts should also be used. Felpro perma torque reboxes the new made in Japan OE improved gasket (I have done a few).
 
Originally Posted by The Critic
Originally Posted by KrisZ
If these engines are known to blow head gaskets, don't be surprised that after the head gasket job your engine starts consuming oil.
If you're in there already, a quick re-ring job might be beneficial.

You raise a good point. However, if I re-ring the engine, the engine needs to come out; a headgasket job can be done in-car. Which means pulling the inverter. So, there is a lot of extra labor, time and materials involved.

At 185k miles, I am inclined to make the car reliable, but not perfect.


Critic,

Just drop an LS3 in that Prius and get yourself on Jay Leno's Garage. You'll be able to sell it after that for a tidy profit. Just kidding. Good luck with the Machining of the head.
 
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You can start going down the path of doing one more thing and end up with a large bill.

I would get the head surface checked and resurfaced if needed. Then skip the valve job unless something looks wrong.
 
I'd skip the valve job - even though valve adjustments are a neglected item on Toyota engines, it's rare that their engines burn valves and need the valves refaced, lapped and guides knurled. Focus on getting the head cleaned up.

Since the cams need to be pulled anyway, fresh valve stem seals and a visual inspection of each valve can't hurt.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Trav

IIRC these Toyota engines use a PTFE coated MLS gasket that has some issues at higher miles, you must not use any sort of sealer on these or you will loose another HG quick and surface finish must be correct for this type of gasket, new bolts should also be used. Felpro perma torque reboxes the new made in Japan OE improved gasket (I have done a few).


How do you dress/prepare the top surface of the block before placing the new gasket?
 
Plastic razor blade in a scraper handle and cleaner, the only residue may be PTFE no gasket material. Do not sand or use a metal blade on the aluminum block and never use a Roloc disc it will ruin the engine bearings.
 
When we send heads out we ask for inspection, pressure testing and machining. I usually give them the valve stem seals, most times they come with the head gasket kit. Usually in the 250-300 range around me.
 
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