M1 Volatility - multiple vis products

[Brian123]

Jag did a test, and his test showed what it showed, I want to thank him for his test, but I am not happy with the results. I am not going to run a test like he did and run the oil at a different temperature. I have found something different from running Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 versus running the ESP 0W-30 in my engine. My oil temps are probably around 200 degrees or so, the Infrared reading at the oil pan is between 175 and 180. Are the oil temps at the Piston Rings around 300, who knows.

 

[buster]

Pistons get very hot so thermal stability and deposit control are extremely important.

 

[OVERKILL]

Pistons get very hot so thermal stability and deposit control are extremely important.

View attachment 283323

Right, which is why we not only have actual standards for deposit prevention and piston cleanliness, but also now products like VRP that specifically target cleaning deposits in that area up.

There are several piston deposit tests in the Euro approvals that both oils being discussed had to pass.

 

[OilUzer]

... I have found something different from running Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 versus running the ESP 0W-30 in my engine.

Which one worked better in your engine?

 

[OilUzer]

...
So, I ended up switching it to M1 AFE 0W-30, which was, from what we could discern of it from published data, an inferior product. The truck used zero between changes.

Inferior relative to other M1 0W-x or other brands or was the add pack or vm inferior? Which Euro approvals did it have?

Hard to see M1 start with a good base oil then mess it up.

 

[OVERKILL]

Inferior relative to other M1 0W-x or other brands or was the add pack or vm inferior? Which Euro approvals did it have?

Hard to see M1 start with a good base oil then mess it up.

Higher Noack, seemed to be more prone to shear. AFE had/has no Euro approvals, it's an ILSAC oil. I was comparing it to the AMSOIL AZO 0W-30, which, on paper, had better specs.

 

[OilUzer]

Higher Noack, seemed to be more prone to shear. AFE had/has no Euro approvals, it's an ILSAC oil. I was comparing it to the AMSOIL AZO 0W-30, which, on paper, had better specs.

ILSAC 0W-30 didn't cross my mind since anytime I think of buying a 0W, it's because of the Euro approvals that typically comes with it. Otherwise, I can get away with a 5/10W temperature wise.
So good or bad, a non-Euro 0W is never on my radar.

 

[folzag2]

Maybe 12K miles OCIs are too long!

What does your M272 owner's manual recommend? Also what MB approvals does it require?

The owners manual says 10k miles of 229.5.

It's a 10 qt sump and I did a fair amount of highway driving and very little daily driving. I did a couple 11k OCI's w/ UOA's and they were textbook fine with plenty of life left (the ones with * below).

I wish I paid closer attention, but I think it was the Castrol 5W-40. I didn't realize it at the time, but I see now where folks say it's sub-par for xW-40's. It could also be a slow accumulation from all of them.

Miles	Oil
9911	Factory Fill
7032	Shell Rotella Syn 5W40
6433	M1 Formula M ESP
12686	M1 Formula M ESP
11788	AMSoil 5W40 Low SAPS *
11700	M1 0W40 Euro (SN) *
12250	M1 0W40 Euro (SN)
11400	Castrol Edge 5W40
10300	Castrol Edge 5W40
10000	Valvoline 0W40
8200	Q.State Euro 5W40

My biggest regret was listening to the dealership tell me 10k on the factory fill was fine, but at the time I didn't know anything about oil or modern cars.

 

[tired]

Single anecdote, take this for what you've paid for it:

Our old 5.4L Expedition, I endeavored to run the best oil I could in it, which, at the time, appeared to be AMSOIL's Signature Series 0W-30, which had a very low Noack for the grade. I had previously run various grades of Mobil 1 in the engine, ranging from 0W-20 to 5W-40 with no meaningful consumption to speak of.

The engine DRANK the SS 0W-30, like 3 litres worth in an OCI. I ran multiple OCI's, subscribing to the old adage you oft see repeated on here about consumption picking up with a change in chemistry, and then tapering off in subsequent OCI's.

It did not taper off and I ultimately burned something like 9 litres of this oil.

So, I ended up switching it to M1 AFE 0W-30, which was, from what we could discern of it from published data, an inferior product. The truck used zero between changes. I had the same experience with M1 Euro 0W-40 in it (this was before it was called FS).

I'm not sure how low the Noack is on the HPL Euro 0W-40 I'm using in the SRT, and JAG's decision not to publish his HPL test results due to the potential controversy it might stir up to me implies that, with this testing methodology, the lubricants didn't perform as well as he expected. If I had to guess, I'd expect the Noack of the 0W-40 is around 9%, which is pretty similar to most 0W-40's in this space. But this oil liberated material and deposited it in the filter that I didn't see with previous premium oils, like Ravenol SSL 0W-40. You of course don't get insight into that aspect of the product's performance with an improvised volatility test.

I think it's important to take information, such as this, not only in aggregate, but also in context. If you feel the results of this test are applicable to your application, then by all means use it as a guide, but if you don't, then it's more useful just as an interesting data point.

This is a very interesting finding. Why do you suppose the Expedition burned AMSOIL SS but not M1?

 

[OVERKILL]

This is a very interesting finding. Why do you suppose the Expedition burned AMSOIL SS but not M1?

I'm honestly not sure. One thought was that, since these engines had PCV issues (the original PCV plumbing design had a tendency to ingest oil mist, resulting in the engine burning it) that for whatever reason, the Mobil products were less inclined to get into a state where they could end up going up the PCV tube.

 

[JAG]

I’ve said this many times since I joined long ago, but it is worth repeating. I bought a new Subaru Impreza RS around year 2000 and used Valvoline Synpower 10W-30 and some other synthetic oils. It consumed around 3/8 qts per 1000 miles with those oils since new. When I used Red Line 10W-30, the consumption doubled. I did multiple OCIs with it. Switched back to Synpower, consumption went back to 3/8 qt per 1000 miles. Went back to Red Line and consumption doubled again. I then gave up on Red Line motor oil in it. The increased consumption certainly was not due to volatility. It also was not due to piston deposits because the change in consumption was roughly immediate. I even tried Pennzoil SAE 30, which got consumed around the same rate as Valvoline Synpower. Some oils do this and I do NOT know if it is related to:
- Thicker oil films on the cylinder walls due to resistance to being scraped off by oil control rings
- More mist generation
- More seepage past the valve seals
- Some other reason(s)

 

[tired]

I'm honestly not sure. One thought was that, since these engines had PCV issues (the original PCV plumbing design had a tendency to ingest oil mist, resulting in the engine burning it) that for whatever reason, the Mobil products were less inclined to get into a state where they could end up going up the PCV tube.

I’ve said this many times since I joined long ago, but it is worth repeating. I bought a new Subaru Impreza RS around year 2000 and used Valvoline Synpower 10W-30 and some other synthetic oils. It consumed around 3/8 qts per 1000 miles with those oils since new. When I used Red Line 10W-30, the consumption doubled. I did multiple OCIs with it. Switched back to Synpower, consumption went back to 3/8 qt per 1000 miles. Went back to Red Line and consumption doubled again. I then gave up on Red Line motor oil in it. The increased consumption certainly was not due to volatility. It also was not due to piston deposits because the change in consumption was roughly immediate. I even tried Pennzoil SAE 30, which got consumed around the same rate as Valvoline Synpower. Some oils do this and I do NOT know if it is related to:
- Thicker oil films on the cylinder walls due to resistance to being scraped off by oil control rings
- More mist generation
- More seepage past the valve seals
- Some other reason(s)

Interesting reports. Thank you both. Always good insight from you guys.

 

[OilUzer]

If anyone has an oil burner, try M1 EP 10W-30 and report back.
I've never tried EP 5W-30 so it may be as good in that department.