M1 Volatility - multiple vis products

[chris719]

OP expresses a desire to utilize the 5w30 ESP oil in a 3.0 Duramax engine. While I attempted to elucidate the distinction between “truck” diesel oil approvals and those specifically designed for VW/BMW gas/diesel vehicles, including cars and SUVs, the individual remained resolute in their intention to use this oil in their truck. Although I would consider using it in vehicles such as the Tacoma, Tundra, or Silverado etc., I would refrain from using it in a diesel truck that generates the power output of the 3.0 Duramax engine. This decision is based on several factors, including fuel dilution and the elevated oil temperatures that the engine experiences.

Is it true GM recommends DexosD 0W-20 for this engine? If so, I’m guessing the ESP 5W-30 is fine and the X3/X4 even better since it carried Dexos2.

 

[6.7 CTD]

Is it true GM recommends DexosD 0W-20 for this engine? If so, I’m guessing the ESP 5W-30 is fine and the X3/X4 even better since it carried Dexos2.

Yes, that’s correct. I’m certain it would be “fine” as well, although there are significantly better diesel truck oil options available. I attempted to discuss this with him, specifically oil approvals for trucks like the Ford 6.7, Cummins 6.7, Chevy 6.6, and so on. Personally, I would be looking at approvals and oil viscosities that meet these criteria. Those 3.0 Duramax engines see unladen oil temperatures around 230°F and 260+°F when towing 5k at highway speeds in 75°F weather. I was simply trying to assist him as he was fixated on euro approvals for his diesel truck engine. I’m all for euro approvals for cars, SUVs, and half-ton pickups. However, diesel truck engines are a different matter altogether, especially a small displacement diesel that makes as much power as the 3.0 does.

 

[chris719]

Yes, that’s correct. I’m certain it would be “fine” as well, although there are significantly better diesel truck oil options available. I attempted to discuss this with him, specifically oil approvals for trucks like the Ford 6.7, Cummins 6.7, Chevy 6.6, and so on. Personally, I would be looking at approvals and oil viscosities that meet these criteria. Those 3.0 Duramax engines see unladen oil temperatures around 230°F and 260+°F when towing 5k at highway speeds in 75°F weather. I was simply trying to assist him as he was fixated on euro approvals for his diesel truck engine. I’m all for euro approvals for cars, SUVs, and half-ton pickups. However, diesel truck engines are a different matter altogether, especially a small displacement diesel that makes as much power as the 3.0 does.

Well the oil they recommend is less robust in all ways than the ESP 5W-30 most likely. There are many engines that make that power density or higher using all sorts of oils.

 

[cookand]

OP expresses a desire to utilize the 5w30 ESP oil in a 3.0 Duramax engine. While I attempted to elucidate the distinction between “truck” diesel oil approvals and those specifically designed for VW/BMW gas/diesel vehicles, including cars and SUVs, the individual remained resolute in their intention to use this oil in their truck. Although I would consider using it in vehicles such as the Tacoma, Tundra, or Silverado etc., I would refrain from using it in a diesel truck that generates the power output of the 3.0 Duramax engine. This decision is based on several factors, including fuel dilution and the elevated oil temperatures that the engine experiences.

And I sincerely appreciate the feedback, and there’s still time for me to change. Lol. I had/have more questions but felt you were a bit tired of my inquiries.

Specifically, the 0w20 DexosD spec’d for my truck. The approvals of the M1 ESP 0/5w30 exceed DexosD from everything I’ve read. Maybe I’m doing this wrong

 

[6.7 CTD]

And I sincerely appreciate the feedback, and there’s still time for me to change. Lol. I had/have more questions but felt you were a bit tired of my inquiries.

Specifically, the 0w20 DexosD spec’d for my truck. The approvals of the M1 ESP 0/5w30 exceed DexosD from everything I’ve read. Maybe I’m doing this wrong

I’m just trying to lend a helping hand to a fellow diesel enthusiast. At this point, anything is better than what GM specifies for this engine.

 

[6.7 CTD]

Well the oil they recommend is less robust in all ways than the ESP 5W-30 most likely. There are many engines that make that power density or higher using all sorts of oils.

Valid, but are those engines also towing 9k lbs? This is a hypothetical question, not that OP mentioned it.

 

[ChrisD46]

Just great, after much angst and gnashing of teeth (in true BiTOG fashion) I had decided on 5w30 ESP for all 3 of my vehicles and now what do I do?!? Lol

I had done the same buying one jug of 5W30 ESP to try against the 0W30 ESP I currently have in use . *Perhaps the 0W30 ESP already in use was the best of the 30 weight ESP oils already ? I wonder if actually having SP approval versus designed to also meet (like the 0W30 ESP) has anything to do with these oils being fairly different from each other ?

 

[cookand]

Valid, but are those engines also towing 9k lbs? This is a hypothetical question, not that OP mentioned it.

Can’t answer your question, but just an FYI, I don’t tow

 

[6.7 CTD]

Can’t answer your question, but just an FYI, I don’t tow

Fair, although this contemplation may not be directly applicable to your current situation, it could be relevant to someone in the future who may find themselves in a similar predicament.

 

[cookand]

Is it true GM recommends DexosD 0W-20 for this engine? If so, I’m guessing the ESP 5W-30 is fine and the X3/X4 even better since it carried Dexos2.

Not just recommends

 

[CharlieDelta]

I’m far from an expert, but it looks like some of the Euro oil tests and standards are as high as or higher than Dexos D. Why would something like Pennzoil Euro 0w20 be incorrect vice Mobil 1 0w20? Similarly, there are 5w30 Dexos D oils…and Euro 5w30s with very similar specs.

They seem cross capable. I could be wrong.

 

[6.7 CTD]

Not just recommends

View attachment 281224

They would need to demonstrate that the oil in use was responsible for the “said” damage. As a side note, my wife’s Toyota specs 0w16, and I run 0w30 HPL in it, still under warranty, and have been for the past 15k miles.

 

[CharlieDelta]

OP expresses a desire to utilize the 5w30 ESP oil in a 3.0 Duramax engine. While I attempted to elucidate the distinction between “truck” diesel oil approvals and those specifically designed for VW/BMW gas/diesel vehicles, including cars and SUVs, the individual remained resolute in their intention to use this oil in their truck. Although I would consider using it in vehicles such as the Tacoma, Tundra, or Silverado etc., I would refrain from using it in a diesel truck that generates the power output of the 3.0 Duramax engine. This decision is based on several factors, including fuel dilution and the elevated oil temperatures that the engine experiences.

Why would the Duramax be so different from the euro turbo diesels? The total volume of testing and data across Mercedes, BMW, VW, and others, is massive…more than GM has published by far.

GM even certified several 5w30 oils as Dexos D.

 

[4WD]

https://www.gmdexos.com/brands/dexosd/index.html

 

[6.7 CTD]

Why would the Duramax be so different from the euro turbo diesels? The total volume of testing and data across Mercedes, BMW, VW, and others, is massive…more than GM has published by far.

GM even certified several 5w30 oils as Dexos D.

You likely didn’t see my previous post, in another thread. I recommended a 5w40 diesel oil. An oil that carries approvals such as Ford’s F1, Cummins CES 20086, or one approved for the GM 6.6 Duramax. None of these diesel “truck” engines approve ESP. For example, VPBE 5w40 carries the following approvals:
Cummins CES 20086
Mack EOS-4.5
Volvo VDS-4.5
Caterpillar ECF-3
Detroit Diesel DFS 93K222, DFS 93K218
Chrysler MS-10902
Ford WSS-M2C171-F1
ACEA E11-22, E7-22
MAN M3775. M3575, M3275
Daimler Truck DTFR 15C100 (228.31)
MTU Category 2.1
This oil, for example, is specifically formulated for diesel trucks, not for diesel “grocery getters” that require a 0/5w30 viscosity grade. This is the point I was trying to convey, which is related to my initial suggestion of 5w40 for his truck. Once more, considering fuel dilution and engine oil operating temperatures, I believe using 5w40 will enhance engine longevity.

 

[CharlieDelta]

You likely didn’t see my previous post, in another thread. I recommended a 5w40 diesel oil. An oil that carries approvals such as Ford’s F1, Cummins CES 20086, or one approved for the GM 6.6 Duramax. None of these diesel “truck” engines approve ESP. For example, VPBE 5w40 carries the following approvals:
Cummins CES 20086
Mack EOS-4.5
Volvo VDS-4.5
Caterpillar ECF-3
Detroit Diesel DFS 93K222, DFS 93K218
Chrysler MS-10902
Ford WSS-M2C171-F1
ACEA E11-22, E7-22
MAN M3775. M3575, M3275
Daimler Truck DTFR 15C100 (228.31)
MTU Category 2.1
This oil, for example, is specifically formulated for diesel trucks, not for diesel “grocery getters” that require a 0/5w30 viscosity grade. This is the point I was trying to convey, which is related to my initial suggestion of 5w40 for his truck. Once more, considering fuel dilution and engine oil operating temperatures, I believe using 5w40 will enhance engine longevity.

Not disagreeing with you philosophically, but GM and their engineers have said that a large part of the oil viscosity and type are based on bearing clearance specs and that the Duramax oil pump combined with the clearances that the oil must flow through would not work with a thicker oil. Effectively, you would get less lubrication as the thickness of the oil would reduce its flow and ability to penetrate into the areas where it needs to be to lube.

 

[OVERKILL]

Not disagreeing with you philosophically, but GM and their engineers have said that a large part of the oil viscosity and type are based on bearing clearance specs and that the Duramax oil pump combined with the clearances that the oil must flow through would not work with a thicker oil. Effectively, you would get less lubrication as the thickness of the oil would reduce its flow and ability to penetrate into the areas where it needs to be to lube.

So, then how does that work in cold temperatures? Because ambient temp has a much greater effect on viscosity than the grade on the bottle.

 

[JAG]

What has happened to this thread with the discussion barely related to the thread’s topic?

Below are the pictures of the agglomerations of the oxidation products. While the three M1 oils have different numbers of agglomerations, their total volume appears similar. QS has only one small one. At least at this point, QS 5W-40 has won in this phase of the test. Out of curiosity, I will continue the test.

 

[JD!]

As always, thanks for publishing your test results!

I'm a bit disappointed as I just settled on ESP 5w-30 for my fleet.

 

[Patman]

As always, thanks for publishing your test results!

I'm a bit disappointed as I just settled on ESP 5w-30 for my fleet.

Don’t be disappointed, there’s nothing wrong with ESP 5w30. It still has the same approvals on it that it’s always had and that’s the important indicator of its quality