M1 EP 15W-50 Goes Group III

delacerda · Nov 1, 2006

From the Mobil 1 site:

Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?

Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.

Vilan · Nov 1, 2006

Be aware, folks, this is not a simple thing. I ran GC a couple times in my third year chem lab... not so bad when you know there's only a few potential chemicals that you're looking for. But in the real world, there could be *anything* in the sample you're running. It really does need a professional to interpret.

Kinda like the output graph of HC/CO/NOx you get from emissions testing... any joe can see the graph, but to really pin it down to a specific problem takes a pro who's seen a thousand of them. And if you don't believe the pro, well, you're welcome to diagnose the problem yourself, but... good luck to ya.

I don't run cool instruments like you, Tom

but I've been running AA (atomic absorption, for those watching at home) for about 5 years and I can sympathize. I would humbly suggest those interested in learning how a GC works to research it for themselves.

http://www.chromatography-online.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_chromatography

Nebraskan · Nov 1, 2006

I never read the beginning of this post, but rather came to the last page. I agree with Tom. I would never begin to explain the actual technology of winemaking that I do at work. Most would not undestand methoxypyrobenzine, how it's little amount (PPB) can actually affect wine quality, how to minimize the occurrence, and so on. Our techniques at the winery are also proprietary and are not open to forums discussions. I can get someone elses wine and tell you what the alcohol content it to the 2nd place if you need or the pH and TA of it, and even do a chromatography test on it for malic to lactic acid conversions. But I cannot explain how one wine is actually "better" than another wine. Oftentimes that's subjective. I use Mobil 1 EP in my wifes lawnmower. I'm not running out tonight to change oil in it. It works fine, and as one of my late friends back in Nebraska used to say... "Who cares!"

delacerda · Nov 1, 2006

That was the regular Mobil 1. This is from the EP section of their site:

What is the difference between Mobil 1® Extended Performance and Mobil 1?

Mobil 1 Extended Performance formulas are designed specifically for today's longer service intervals and are guaranteed to protect for up to 15,000 miles or one year.

Mobil 1 Extended Performance has a unique formulation with a boosted level of protection and performance. Mobil 1 Extended Performance, with the Advanced SuperSyn System, contains 50 percent more SuperSyn than Mobil 1. (Updated March 2006)

....interesting

427Z06 · Nov 1, 2006

Quote:

I never read the beginning of this post, but rather came to the last page. I agree with Tom. I would never begin to explain the actual technology of winemaking that I do at work. Most would not undestand methoxypyrobenzine, how it's little amount (PPB) can actually affect wine quality, how to minimize the occurrence, and so on. Our techniques at the winery are also proprietary and are not open to forums discussions. I can get someone elses wine and tell you what the alcohol content it to the 2nd place if you need or the pH and TA of it, and even do a chromatography test on it for malic to lactic acid conversions. But I cannot explain how one wine is actually "better" than another wine.

That's one of the worst analogies I've seen in a long time.

427Z06 · Nov 1, 2006

Quote:

Mobil 1 Extended Performance has a unique formulation with a boosted level of protection and performance. Mobil 1 Extended Performance, with the Advanced SuperSyn System, contains 50 percent more SuperSyn than Mobil 1. (Updated March 2006)

....interesting

SuperSyn is a high VI, high viscosity PAO synthetic used in small quantities as a substitute for VII. It has very little to do with this topic.

SubLGT · Nov 1, 2006

Quote:

Be aware, folks, this is not a simple thing. I ran GC a couple times in my third year chem lab... not so bad when you know there's only a few potential chemicals that you're looking for. But in the real world, there could be *anything* in the sample you're running. It really does need a professional to interpret..................

TomNJ previously stated: "Just one other comment. I reviewed the graphs with our G.C. analyst (45 years with the company in instrumental analysis) and our R&D Director (24 years with the company) and both drew the same immediate conclusion - loaded with Group III."

These guys sound like professionals to me!

delacerda · Nov 1, 2006

Isn't SuperSyn an anti-wear additive? Either way, what about the statement "Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs)" ?

427Z06 · Nov 1, 2006

Quote:

Be aware, folks, this is not a simple thing. I ran GC a couple times in my third year chem lab... not so bad when you know there's only a few potential chemicals that you're looking for. But in the real world, there could be *anything* in the sample you're running. It really does need a professional to interpret.

No doubt, but Tom's posts to date, his website paper, etc, does give a very good indication that Tom has a clue.

Further, I first carried out experiments with nuclear accelerator, crystal X-ray diffraction and gas chromatograph equipment, etc, almost 30 years ago when working on my Physics degree. Heck, I once had a summer job repairing gas chromatograph equipment back then. So it wouldn't be prudent to assume that everyone here doesn't have the background to understand what Tom is presenting.

Vilan · Nov 1, 2006

Maybe I didn't express myself quite right. No doubts here as to Tom's ability to interpret his data. Just confirming what he said about it being a tricky business.

acewiza · Nov 1, 2006

Quote:

Further, I first carried out experiments with nuclear accelerator, crystal X-ray diffraction and gas chromatograph equipment, etc, almost 30 years ago when working on my Physics degree. Heck, I once had a summer job repairing gas chromatograph equipment back then.

Wow, impressive. That'll sure take the analogy prize for demonstrating the validity of your 30 year old qualifications.

My interpretation would be "college student does experiments and and fixes broken equipment." Oh yeah, highly technical qualifications there, bub.

sxg6 · Nov 1, 2006

Auto-Union · Nov 1, 2006

Quote:

Could Gas-to-Liquid oil show up as mineral oil in G.C.? Does XOM currently have the capability to make lots of it economically? I'd like to rule this out before I get one step closer to taking these results as fact.

Good question.

I've sorta wondered why, when Mobil's SyperSyn became a "system" of additives and base oil, because when the term was first coined it refered to just the SuperSyn base oil.

Boy, think about all the guys who specualted online that Mobil 1 was Group III and were absolutely pummeled and hecked to death. Tom is in good company. So, as per Carpy diem, Mobil Clean 5000 is G-III (too) and everyone else who says blends like Mobil Clean 7500 are pointless because they only contain a small amount of synthetics, that does not leave a lot of room for big differences in formulation across the product line. That is, earl is earl.

Seriously, we've see cheap dino oils go extended drain, is "synthetic" really wothwhile?.

Auto-Union · Nov 1, 2006

How ironic it would be if in Mobil's boardroom, German Syntec was cited in the decision to go to G-III. It's like, "heck, if we can't have the ~only~ PAO oil in the retail market..."

Nebraskan · Nov 1, 2006

Quote:

That is, earl is earl.

Seriously, we've see cheap dino oils go extended drain, is "synthetic" really wothwhile?.

Just my opinion, but I've always felt that synthetics greatest attribute was the working heat range. I believe that synthetic flows easier, sooner in cold engines and helps to combat engine wear on cold starts. I believe their ability to structure lubrication molecules to a certain degree and the lack of certain impurities that are difficult to remove from regular mineral oil also are a bonus. These are just my

This link:
http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/1,000,000%20MILES.htm
shows a Kenworth diesel truck that went over 1 million miles on Shell Rotella 15-40 motor oil. Same oil, only one oil change. Kept it clean and voila.

Tornado Red · Nov 1, 2006

Quote:

It couldn't have been long lost on EM's movers and shakers that continuing to churn out PAO-rich full synthetics and keeping it priced within reason of severely hydrotreated full synthetics was a gradually losing proposition profit-wise. Times is a tougher in the petro-chemical industry - recent obscene profiteering notwithstanding. EM has simply adjusted to market realities.

Wrong, I think. Folks are willing to pay premium prices for premium oil. Mobil 1 is a powerful brand with a strong reputation built up over 20+ years. When most laymen are asked to name a synthetic motor oil, Mobil 1 is the first one that comes to mind.

Cheapening that brand is a really stupid idea, even if it increases profits in the short-term.

It doesn't matter any if the regular M1 products still have Group IV basestocks. The M1 reputation has been damaged. If they wanted to produce a cheaper semi-synthetic motor oil, they should have given it a different name.

427Z06 · Nov 1, 2006

Quote:

Just my opinion, but I've always felt that synthetics greatest attribute was the working heat range. I believe that synthetic flows easier, sooner in cold engines and helps to combat engine wear on cold starts. I believe their ability to structure lubrication molecules to a certain degree and the lack of certain impurities that are difficult to remove from regular mineral oil also are a bonus.

I concurr, but they also have some advantage at the upper temperature extreme for Turbos and Corvettes WO/oil coolers.

beanoil · Nov 1, 2006

Quote:

Quote:

Had I known people here would be so upset I probably would not have posted the results at all. I have no intent to "allow rampant speculation", indeed I stated repeatedly that the base oil mixture is not critical and that I would continue to use the M1. The "rampant speculation" seems to be the nature of this forum, apparently driven by a passionate and purist love for oils.

Maybe I should go find a good sex forum!

Tom

Click to expand...

Tom, please don't feel that way. Information and knowledge is always better than speculation and belief. People may seem upset, but it's probably more like betrayed, since many here have always staunchly defended M1 whenever someone speculated that M1 was mostly Grp III without evidence. Now that XOM won't provide anything more than a wishy washy statement, I believe the reaction you see is quite natural.

Agreed. This argument has gone on here in the form of the Castrol/Mobil debate forever. It is a matter of value for the dollar in some cases, and just wanting the "best" quality product period in others. And besides, the lubricants you are studying here are way more important than the lubricants that other forum uses. Well, to us anyway..

Auto-Union · Nov 1, 2006

"Mobil 3"
lol

ATS-V · Nov 1, 2006

Tom, I think you did this board a great service.

M1 EP 15W-50 Goes Group III

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