M1 5W30 EP vs ESP : Which would you run a longer OCI with ?

[edyvw]

Curious how M1 5W30 EP would do in the MB & VW testing ? Also at WM the M1 5W30 EP was $29 while the M1 5W30 ESP was $27 per jug. Up to 15,000 miles it appears the 5W30 ESP oil is the better all - around , more cost effective oil (even more so perhaps for the 0W30 ESP ).

I am not sure price is indicative of quality. Quaker State Euro 5W40 sometimes goes for $19.
ESP has VW504.00 approval. That means oil has to be able to do 30,000km or 18,000+ mls OCI.
That is guaranteed by VW when they issue approval for their engines.
On other hand, Mobil1 will warrant this oil only if changed at 10,000mls.
I think, that should tell you everything. Could it do 20,000 in some engines? Possibly. And some engines could obliterate it before 10k mark. That is problem with “one size fits all approach.” And that is why XOM has that limited warranty disclaimer.

 

[buster]

I think EP is better for long drains.

Amsoil and Pennzoil both put their top tier EP oils over their Euro FWIW.

ESP is likely better for in grade viscosity control due to higher HT/HS (3.5) and "maybe" some wear control but that's hard to say.

 

[wemay]

EP

 

[Glenda W.]

This is an interesting debate. On one hand ESP carries approvals that require extended drain capabilities in Europe. On the other hand EP claims 20k in only perfect conditions.

In my opinion EP in severe conditions under performs ESP as I’ve seen some varnish following the OLM posted on here. My vote is ESP.

 

[buster]

This is an interesting debate. On one hand ESP carries approvals that require extended drain capabilities in Europe. On the other hand EP claims 20k in only perfect conditions.

In my opinion EP in severe conditions under performs ESP as I’ve seen some varnish following the OLM posted on here. My vote is ESP.

I go back and forth. Not really sure either way and I'm not sure we have enough information to really make an accurate assessment one way or the other.

 

[edyvw]

I think EP is better for long drains.

Amsoil and Pennzoil both put their top tier EP oils over their Euro FWIW.

ESP is likely better for in grade viscosity control due to higher HT/HS (3.5) and "maybe" some wear control but that's hard to say.

View attachment 289097

Extreme performance?
I mean PPE 5W40 has Porsche A40 approval, which requires 8X1hrs of Nordschleife run. What extreme performance test does Ultra Platinum has?





Also, Euro oils have higher ZDDP levels, which are antioxidants.

 

[buster]

Extreme performance?
I mean PPE 5W40 has Porsche A40 approval, which requires 8X1hrs of Nordschleife run. What extreme performance test does Ultra Platinum has?





Also, Euro oils have higher ZDDP levels, which are antioxidants.

Yeah I don't really know. I just know that talking to Amsoil, they put SS above their Euro line. Most racing or engine builders also use SS over Amsoil Euro. As far as PUP vs their Euro, I have no idea. I'm going by what Shell is saying. I don't think there is enough information to say one way or the other, but I can see why many would lean towards the Euro formulations.

 

[edyvw]

Yeah I don't really know. I just know that talking to Amsoil, they put SS above their Euro line. Most racing or engine builders also use SS over Amsoil Euro. As far as PUP vs their Euro, I have no idea. I'm going by what Shell is saying. I don't think there is enough information to say one way or the other, but I can see why many would lean towards the Euro formulations.

Ultra Platinum has bit of esters. Yeah, it is step up from Platinum. However, that is all marketing.
The thing with Euro approvals is that they must pass these tests. So, you don't rely just on marketing.
In ESP over EP. Take into consideration that ESP has much more ZDDP content than EP.
And again, let's go back to that "guarantee." Mobil1 really guarantees 10,000mls, not 20,000mls.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

5 years after purchase? What happens if you happen to get old stock oil like 5 years old at time of purchase?

You shouldn't be using oil that old. Oil does have a shelf life, contrary to what some BITOGs want to believe. This, to me, is one of the reasons why hoarding oil that can't be used in the near-future is foolish.

 

[53' Stude]

M1 5w30 ESP cause I can’t find the EP every time I look for it

 

[Plumb Bob]

504/507 is a proven long drain approval. I would choose ESP

 

[wemay]

I've seen plenty varnished European vehicles that have used the oils with the recommended approvals. Likewise, I'm sure the same holds true for vehicles using M1EP...I've just not seen it, personally.

 

[JAG]

What condemnation limit or failure mode do you all think generally happens first when the oil is run long enough? Some possibilities are high TAN causing corrosion, viscosity too high, spike in deposits, excessive dirt or coolant content (let’s exclude this one since it is not the oil’s fault), and wear rate spiking for unknown reasons.

I think the most common first failure mode is a spike in deposits, if dirt and coolant content in oil is excluded. If it is an HPL oil, it might be viscosity too high, apparently at least in part, because they are generally more shear stable than most oils.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

What condemnation limit or failure mode do you all think generally happens first when the oil is run long enough? Some possibilities are high TAN causing corrosion, viscosity too high, spike in deposits, excessive dirt or coolant content (let’s exclude this one since it is not the oil’s fault), and wear rate spiking for unknown reasons.

I think the most common first failure mode is a spike in deposits, if dirt and coolant content in oil is excluded. If it is an HPL oil, it might be viscosity too high, apparently at least in part, because they are generally more shear stable than most oils.

Oxidative thickening.

 

[Plumb Bob]

I've seen plenty varnished European vehicles that have used the oils with the recommended approvals. Likewise, I'm sure the same holds true for vehicles using M1EP...I've just not seen it, personally.

I have.

 

[buster]

Oxidative thickening.

I never paid much attention to changes in oxidation which is a big mistake. But that's because 90% of the UOAs on here are from BS labs. Between poor fuel dilution accuracy and no oxidation value you lose a lot of information. You can then ask if some oils can handle higher viscosity better in terms of keeping engines clean../more detergents or lack of? It's pretty consistently stated oils with the higher ester base oils do keep engines cleaner. But I know there are other cleaning boosters they refer too that could be something else. I guess the bottom line is it does come to testing and they take the guesswork out of it...as they should who else can? With that said maybe the ESP are the best even for long drains just due to the higher specification level. You'd have to compare an oil that greatly exceeds SP (Amsoil SS/M1 EP) in same tests as ESP and compare. Because the tests don't all align to really definitively say.

 

[Glenda W.]

What condemnation limit or failure mode do you all think generally happens first when the oil is run long enough? Some possibilities are high TAN causing corrosion, viscosity too high, spike in deposits, excessive dirt or coolant content (let’s exclude this one since it is not the oil’s fault), and wear rate spiking for unknown reasons.

I think the most common first failure mode is a spike in deposits, if dirt and coolant content in oil is excluded. If it is an HPL oil, it might be viscosity too high, apparently at least in part, because they are generally more shear stable than most oils.

I agree. Deposits.

In my experience some pretty worn out engines continue to chug along. Deposits is what kills them.

 

[ChrisD46]

I am not sure price is indicative of quality. Quaker State Euro 5W40 sometimes goes for $19.
ESP has VW504.00 approval. That means oil has to be able to do 30,000km or 18,000+ mls OCI.
That is guaranteed by VW when they issue approval for their engines.
On other hand, Mobil1 will warrant this oil only if changed at 10,000mls.
I think, that should tell you everything. Could it do 20,000 in some engines? Possibly. And some engines could obliterate it before 10k mark. That is problem with “one size fits all approach.” And that is why XOM has that limited warranty disclaimer.

Are you saying ESP oil won’t go 18K miles even if approved for VW504.00 ? Seems like M1 is at odds with itself .

 

[Rand]

Ultra Platinum has bit of esters. Yeah, it is step up from Platinum. However, that is all marketing.
The thing with Euro approvals is that they must pass these tests. So, you don't rely just on marketing.
In ESP over EP. Take into consideration that ESP has much more ZDDP content than EP.
And again, let's go back to that "guarantee." Mobil1 really guarantees 10,000mls, not 20,000mls.

While I agree with the sentiment, that might be overly generic as m1 esp 5w30 is API SP.
of course it still has

 

[edyvw]

Are you saying ESP oil won’t go 18K miles even if approved for VW504.00 ? Seems like M1 is at odds with itself .

I am saying VW approval process requires oil to be able to do 18,000+ mile OCI!
That is OCI in some European countries.
My point is that you have test that requires oil to do that OCI. M1 5W30 does not have other party test except M1 claim. And when you go into details of their warranty, it is not 20k, but 10k. And if you use that oil let’s say in VW, M1 will tell you that it won’t cover damage bcs. you didn’t use appropriate oil.