M1 15W50EP = junk

[MrWOT]

I thought I'd give this stuff a shot last oc, so I used the M1 full synth that is supposedly their best of the best, the bottle states that it will let you run close to a 15k oci. Well, I ordered some a-rx a while ago and got impatient to do the cleaning so I drained the pan a few days ago and this oil is TOAST. I pulled my turbo and checked the bearings, and there are signs of coking as well. This oil doesn't stand up to high heat for beans. And at $5.99/qt I'm pretty peeved about it. Anyone else had experiences with this stuff?

Btw, I only had the oil for 3.6k miles since the fill

 

[Bobert]

I doubt it was the M1. If your doing ARX obviously you've used several other oils before. The coking was probably from other oil.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Doesn't the Auto-Rx directions say NOT to use full synthetic oils?????????

 

[Bio-T]

You can use Synthetic oil for the Auto-Rx Clean phase of 1500 miles. Dino oil for the Rinse phase of 2000 miles.

I don't think MrWOT had put the Auto-Rx in yet. If I understand it correctly he drained the oil and was going to add the Auto-Rx at the fill.

 

[JHZR2]

Funny that I havent heard about this from others.

Granted, someone who drives WOT and then shuts an oil cooled turbo engine right off without letting it idle a while would coke most any oil... Might just be your problem.

I think your impatience and lack of ability to follow directions for certain products may have something to do with it...

You might have seen auto rx encapsulating stuff inside, and mistook it for sludge.

JMH

 

[MrWOT]

This was the pre-arx drain, and previous to that I've always used Alisyn Prodrive 21, which I can assure you, will not coke at those temps. I inspect the bearings every 3 months, and always give the turbo a good 2 minute cooldown before shutting off the engine via a timer.

http://www.aerospacelubricants.com/...TOMOTIVE?ID=MANIFfF6R6m&index.html=Automotive
I regularly use the 15w40

It was definetly the M1 that did it.

 

[Winston]

What kind of car is this? Just so we have the facts straight. Can you tell us;

1. The date and mileage that you checked the turbo bearings and found them "coked"?
2. The date and mileage that you put in the M1.
3. The date and mileage that you previously checked the bearings for sludge/coke.
4. Type of driving you do.

 

[MrWOT]

1988 Toyota Celica Alltrac, 2.0L turbocharged 4cylinder, engine code 3S-GTE.

Current engine has 74k on the clock as of now, of which I have put the last 52k on, the motor was imported and rebuilt prior to installation. I last checked the bearings at 68k, I usually do it every 12k or so, this was about 2 1/2 months ago. And as for my type of driving, it varies from a steady 2700 cruise at 55, to occasional high speed/rpm driving when I take hwy 5 down to San Jose, the majority is easy highway miles. The motor puts quite a bit of heat into the oil, and has piston oil squirters in the block as well. I wasn't even going to be using the arx for sludge, I just had a weeping rear main seal I wanted to condition, the other bottle was for the trans.

edit: forgot to mention, I use a WIX filter, and have done so since the motor was rebuilt

I'm going to cut the rinse phase arx one apart and see how much sludge was accumulated

 

[Winston]

quote:

---

From JHZ; Funny that I havent heard about this from others.

---

Not many people remove their turbo for inspection every 3 months. Most comments revolve around the "butt dyno" and "sounds quieter" and "revs freely up to redline", etc. All of which can be imaginary.

 

[tdi-rick]

quote:

---

.....so I drained the pan a few days ago and this oil is TOAST.

---

I'm curious about this comment.
What do you mean by it ?
Did you have the oil analysed ?
If not, how do you determine it is toast ?

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

---

MrWOT:

..... so I drained the pan a few days ago and this oil is TOAST. ....

---

What does "TOAST" mean?

The 15W-50 Mobil 1 EP has a flash point of 241C.

That's on the high end of the automotive oils and just below the Mobil 1 motorcycle oils.

If it was exceptionally dirty, perhaps the EP got a head start on your Auto-RX.


.

 

[JHZR2]

One thing I'd venture to guess is based upon a quote from here:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=22;t=000581;p=1#000014

quote:

---

I own a Mainship Trawler (boat) that is powered by a CAT 3116 TA 300hp engine. CAT insists that the engine oil MUST be a straight wt 30 or 40wt. Seems polymers have a tendency to clog up the turbo and aftercooler in these
engines leading to engine problems. So I use Amsoil 30 wt heavy duty synthetic diesel engine oil with a Amsoil remote oil filtration unit. Oil capacity is almost 30 qts.

---

Now... 15w-50 is a spread of 35... same as a 5w-40 oil.

However, 15w-50 isnt as popular grade as 5w-40 and perhaps it doesnt contain as well develloped of a set of VIIs, or something isnt as good about this oil (bad batch of base oil?) as it ought to be?

JMH

 

[JohnBrowning]

Were is the UOA?????? Their is no way that you coked M1 15W50 in 3.6K miles!!! My B.S. Meter is in the red! Pablo you still have that B.S. Meter????

Granted I have not used the new gold cap 15W50 but I have used the old red cap 15W50 as long as it has been on the market!I want to see the UOA only becasue this is such a hard story to buy!! To many people use 15W50 with no problems at all!

 

[MrWOT]

Didn't do an analysis, I said it was toast based on the color, and the smell, and the coking in the bearings, I did not drop the pan to check for deposits as it is difficult to do with this car. But it was definetly burnt. I check the bearings in the turbo because the turbo itself is 3rd hand, it was put on 2nd hand, used, from the person I bought the engine from, so no telling how many miles. The shaft play is still within spec, but I still watch it. I do still have the oil, but it is contaminated now as I added it to the other used oil in a 5 gallon bucket for recycling.

I can assure you there is no bs here. I am very, VERY serious about my car, and this oil was absolute garbage, I would have expected this from dino oil, but from a full synth rated to 15k oci? I don't know what gives, but I can gaurantee I will NEVER use this stuff in a turbocharged vehicle again.

edit: I felt that I should also add, that I have used the 10w30 M1 full synth in my mustang SVO (also turbocharged) before it's fatal accident on the ice quite sucessfully, which is why I decided to risk the EP rather then order more pd21 for the cleaning phase.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

AHHH Color and smell that is scientific..

As far as the coking

It could be the oil, it could be something worse than oil.. Why not get an analysis? If you really are this anal about the engine the analysis can show you things that you can't see , touch smell or for gods sake don't taste it! What if you have something in the oil that isn't supposed to be there? Just a thought before you jump tpo conclusions.
From my limitied time following things around here it usaully isn't the oil.

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

---

MrWOT:

Didn't do an analysis, I said it was toast based on the color, and the smell, and the coking in the bearings, I did not drop the pan to check for deposits as it is difficult to do with this car. But it was definetly burnt. ....

---

If it's actually burnt, you've got a problem, and it isn't the motor oil.


.

 

[JHZR2]

lets not forget that there is auto-rx in there... very well might be clumps of the auto-rx in there.

JMH

 

[Johnny]

I would like to know more about the Prodrive 21 you are using. I pulled up their website and all I could find out is that it is a synthetic hydrocarbon base stock. To bad they don't show spec sheets like others do. For $9.95 a quart this stuff should last a long time.

 

[BlueWorld]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JHZR2:
lets not forget that there is auto-rx in there... very well might be clumps of the auto-rx in there.

JMH

---

No, this was the OCI before the A-RX. There was no A-RX in the mix.

 

[MrWOT]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bryanccfshr:
AHHH Color and smell that is scientific..

As far as the coking

It could be the oil, it could be something worse than oil.. Why not get an analysis? If you really are this anal about the engine the analysis can show you things that you can't see , touch smell or for gods sake don't taste it! What if you have something in the oil that isn't supposed to be there? Just a thought before you jump tpo conclusions.
From my limitied time following things around here it usaully isn't the oil.

---

Guys, I KNOW that it isn't the most precise ways of saying this, but if there's something else I should be looking for instead of blaming the oil, tell me. I keep almost religous tabs on this engine. The compression is above 140 on all 4 cylinders, low spec on it is 120 before a rebuild, the leakdown rate is less then 3%, there was no sludge in the top of the head when I pulled the valve cover to change the gasket 4 months ago and the prodrive usually drains out the same color and smell as it does when you fill it

Seriously folks, I'm open to suggestions here. I know it shouldn't have done this, but unless someone can offer a different conclusion I don't see what else it could be?