M1 0w40...FS vs European Car Formula?

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Originally Posted By: SilverC6
until Shell wakes up to the need in the consumer market.

Shell has had Pennzoil Euro 5w-40 that meets LL-01 spec for years. It's available at many auto part stores.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
until Shell wakes up to the need in the consumer market.

Shell has had Pennzoil Euro 5w-40 that meets LL-01 spec for years. It's available at many auto part stores.



I'm aware of the Pennzoil Euro.

Usually 8 quarts sitting at the local Autozone until the $2 oil sale.

Never seen it in a big box store next to the M1 0W-40 and the Castrol 0W-40.

Until Shell supports it at the same level as its more mundane synthetic offerings, it's a non-player in the marketplace.

Maybe a LL-01 5w30 Pennzoil will get the necessary shelf space to challenge Castrol in the future.
 
If LL-01 is of a concern to the OP, Castrol Edge 0W-40 full synthetic in 5QT jugs can be had at Walmart (gasp!) for ~$25.
I use this for my Volvo with good results.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I can't imagine that many owners of recent model cars that actually require LL-01 oil wanting to step foot in Walmart.

When my butler takes the day off, I have to. Very sad.

When someone finds out WHY Mobil1 0w40 dropped LL-01, please share. Get the scoop for us. Its just weird.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I can't imagine that many owners of recent model cars that actually require LL-01 oil wanting to step foot in Walmart.


Where else can you get a new pack of wife-beaters and two jugs of Castrol 0W-40 in just one stop? HAHA

Seriously, it doesn't make any sense to de-spec your Euro oil for BMW.

Maybe M1 can't overcome the historic BMW/Castrol connection.

Maybe M1 is losing money putting its LL-01 oil on Walmart's shelf at $23-$26.

I would like to hear Mobil's rationale too.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I can't imagine that many owners of recent model cars that actually require LL-01 oil wanting to step foot in Walmart.


If I had a car requiring LL-01 I'd still use the Walmart purchased M1 0w-40 FS. It didn't change that much based on VOA's. And with that new FS spec it went from #106 (old version) to #1 (FS) on 540RAT's list....best of all the 0/5-40w oils tested. They did something better with it.
 
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
If I had a car requiring LL-01 I'd still use the Walmart purchased M1 0w-40 FS. It didn't change that much based on VOA's. And with that new FS spec it went from #106 (old version) to #1 (FS) on 540RAT's list....best of all the 0/5-40w oils tested. They did something better with it.

Not sure about the 540RAT junk science, but to each his own. Eat it up. Alternative Facts there.
I do agree, if you have a BMW off warranty, its safe to use M1 0w40.

Lots of BMWs out there old enough NOT to get the free dealer oil changes.

Maybe Rex Tillerson can fix this? Or is he too busy these days?
 
It would probably be just fine to use TGMO 0W-20 in your out of warranty BMW but I wouldn't do it.

Too easy just to pick up the Castrol LL-01 0W-40 jug nearby.

It's Mobil's loss.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
So is Mobil walking away from the LL-01 BMW market completely?

No, they have Mobil Super 3000 5w-40 up here which is LL-01, but in quantities a normal consumer wouldn't buy.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I can't imagine that many owners of recent model cars that actually require LL-01 oil wanting to step foot in Walmart.


Where else can you get a new pack of wife-beaters and two jugs of Castrol 0W-40 in just one stop? HAHA

Seriously, it doesn't make any sense to de-spec your Euro oil for BMW.

Maybe M1 can't overcome the historic BMW/Castrol connection.

Maybe M1 is losing money putting its LL-01 oil on Walmart's shelf at $23-$26.

I would like to hear Mobil's rationale too.



I called Mobil tech and they said BMW dropped M1 0-40. The FS formula is almost the same as the older Euro formula. Formulas are always being tweaked. As M1 0-40 still has many other Euro certs, I would use it if I owned a BMW.
 
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OEMs don't 'drop' oils, what generally happens is that the approval for a given oil expires (they have a finite life). Often you can simply apply to extend the approval but sometimes the OEM has updated the requirements for that approval and the oil no longer meets the new requirements (or the oil supplier doesn't want to invest in getting it tested).
 
Originally Posted By: weasley
OEMs don't 'drop' oils, what generally happens is that the approval for a given oil expires (they have a finite life). Often you can simply apply to extend the approval but sometimes the OEM has updated the requirements for that approval and the oil no longer meets the new requirements (or the oil supplier doesn't want to invest in getting it tested).

Every time you change formulation of oil you need to submit for testing. Testing is actually very cheap.
 
I suspect, at least for the interim, we're going to wind up with another song and dance along the lines as to why M1 doesn't have the basic Chrysler specification. Someone's in a snit. M1 doesn't have the Chrysler spec, but Mobil Super conventional does. M1 0w-40 doesn't have LL-01, but Mobil Super 3000 5w-40 does.
 
The story is that m1 0w40 was reformulated and thus needs to be retested to continue claiming ll01 compliance. At the same time, apparently bmw made the testing requirements a lot more burdensome, so some oil mfgs decided to pass on it.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Every time you change formulation of oil you need to submit for testing

I know. This still doesn't mean that the OEM "drop" the oil, which was what was stated.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Testing is actually very cheap.

No, it really is not. You can spend tens of thousands of dollars on one engine test. These programmes often require several engine tests (for example, just to get the ACEA A3/B4 spec that you need to underpin a LL-01 approval you need to run 8 engine tests, then BMW want a further three more) - if you are lucky (or good) you pass each one first time, but rarely is this the case. Test costs for a range of oils (because often an oil is developed as part of a platform) go into the $millions.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The story is that m1 0w40 was reformulated and thus needs to be retested to continue claiming ll01 compliance. At the same time, apparently bmw made the testing requirements a lot more burdensome, so some oil mfgs decided to pass on it.


I could go with that, although "decided to pass on it" is essentially speculation - it might be that testing is underway as we speak and it is simply a matter of timing that has led to a gap in the approval profile.
 
Originally Posted By: weasley
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Every time you change formulation of oil you need to submit for testing

I know. This still doesn't mean that the OEM "drop" the oil, which was what was stated.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Testing is actually very cheap.

No, it really is not. You can spend tens of thousands of dollars on one engine test. These programmes often require several engine tests (for example, just to get the ACEA A3/B4 spec that you need to underpin a LL-01 approval you need to run 8 engine tests, then BMW want a further three more) - if you are lucky (or good) you pass each one first time, but rarely is this the case. Test costs for a range of oils (because often an oil is developed as part of a platform) go into the $millions.

I worked on oil testing from idea to the point when it was sent to VW for approval. When company sent it for approval, VW returned approval and invoice for 3200 euros. I am talking about actual test of oil, NOT development.
So please....
 
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