M1 0W-40 oil, FS vs. non-FS, which is "better"?

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WhizkidTN

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I've read some members not happy with the changes XOM made with the easy to get (Walmart 5qt jug for ~$25) 0W-40 Euro A3/B3 SN oil moving to the "FS" version.

Besides the dropping of the BMW LL-01 rating, what specifically makes the "FS" oil better or worse than the previous brew?? Is the dropping of the BMW LL-01 the ONLY real sticking point?

Not attempting to start a "flame war", I just really want to understand the sentiment and what factors are used for judgements either way.

Thanks guys!
 
I think its likely better. UOAs have been great and the TBN got a boost iirc. Its also using some GTL fwiw. Its a touch thinner but its roughly the same as the old old formulation. There is no evidence it is in any way inferior.
 
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
I think its likely better. UOAs have been great and the TBN got a boost iirc. Its also using some GTL fwiw. Its a touch thinner but its roughly the same as the old old formulation. There is no evidence it is in any way inferior.


Except for the fact that it no longer has Longlife-01.
 
Just for fun, I used the comparison tool on Mobil 1's website. Comparing the 0W-40 FS against the Annual Protection, Extended Performance, and High Mileage.
I was surprised, according to Mobil, the 0W-40 FS has the highest performance marks in all the categories listed.
I was thinking the Annual Protection would either tie or be better in some areas.

https://mobiloil.com/en/product-comparison?p1=%7b750237b0-a15c-4fd5-bdaa-24d61c3519e7%7d&p2=%7b6f399141-eac1-4ba1-940a-f409f3e10238%7d&p3=%7b4e625813-2c47-4907-a244-c9613bd123f3%7d&p4=%7b8cf69b89-92a5-436c-a7ce-dc95eefea7a9%7d
 
with the $12 rebate, it is the cheapest VW 502 oil, so that makes it "best" for me
laugh.gif
 
not having a spec may simply mean they don't want to pay for it based on a cost benefit analysis. Perhaps it can't meet the spec...we may never know. Unless they pull a Valvoline dexos. Many here figured Valvoline couldn't meet the spec...turns out they just didnt want to pony up. Perhaps xom is in the same boat
 
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
not having a spec may simply mean they don't want to pay for it based on a cost benefit analysis. Perhaps it can't meet the spec...we may never know. Unless they pull a Valvoline dexos. Many here figured Valvoline couldn't meet the spec...turns out they just didnt want to pony up. Perhaps xom is in the same boat


Yeah, definitely maybe.
 
Originally Posted By: njohnson
Just for fun, I used the comparison tool on Mobil 1's website. Comparing the 0W-40 FS against the Annual Protection, Extended Performance, and High Mileage.
I was surprised, according to Mobil, the 0W-40 FS has the highest performance marks in all the categories listed.
I was thinking the Annual Protection would either tie or be better in some areas.

https://mobiloil.com/en/product-comparison?p1=%7b750237b0-a15c-4fd5-bdaa-24d61c3519e7%7d&p2=%7b6f399141-eac1-4ba1-940a-f409f3e10238%7d&p3=%7b4e625813-2c47-4907-a244-c9613bd123f3%7d&p4=%7b8cf69b89-92a5-436c-a7ce-dc95eefea7a9%7d

Interesting, indeed.

The 0w-40 has the beefiest add pack, so that may be why it's ranked highest when it comes to protection against wear and fighting sludge/deposits.

Like I said in other threads, their 0w-40 should be capable of 20K mile OCI (just like their newest AP oil) based on some of the long life mfg specs it carries, even if you account for the loss of LL-01 approval. The difference is that AP oil can do it with lower add pack / lower SA level, which may be desirable in some applications.
 
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Ive been extremely tempted to try the AP and run it out 20k...I hate changing oil. It does make me nervous though...ive got to be honest

If you pile on 20k miles in a year or less, it's certainly worth a try. I would do a UOA at the end to decide if the OCI needs to be adjusted.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
Ive been extremely tempted to try the AP and run it out 20k...I hate changing oil. It does make me nervous though...ive got to be honest

If you pile on 20k miles in a year or less, it's certainly worth a try. I would do a UOA at the end to decide if the OCI needs to be adjusted.


But wouldn't it be cheaper to run EP out to 15,000? 2xEP out to 30,000 is cheaper on a per-mile basis than AP @20,000. Plus if you are doing a UOA that would make it even worse.

Mind you, I'm a good candidate for the oil in my Accord, I only see that car about once a year and it would be possible for it to go more than 15,000 miles although it hasn't yet. But at that price, wow now way.
 
The oil keeps the parts separated and lasts for the oil drain interval the oil is good.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
ouldn't it be cheaper to run EP out to 15,000? 2xEP out to 30,000 is cheaper on a per-mile basis than AP @20,000.

I wasn't looking at it from a cost perspective, only how often you'll need to do an oil change. He said he hates doing oil changes (now where is his BITOG spirit?), so having to do it every 20k trumps having to do it every 15k.

Quote:
Plus if you are doing a UOA that would make it even worse.

Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting he does it after every oil change. He can do it only once, to see if it's actually doable in his particular application, since he mentioned that running up to 20K miles makes him nervous.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Doublehaul
I think its likely better. UOAs have been great and the TBN got a boost iirc. Its also using some GTL fwiw. Its a touch thinner but its roughly the same as the old old formulation. There is no evidence it is in any way inferior.


Except for the fact that it no longer has Longlife-01.


Yes, but it also has 540RAT-IW/LL-01 testing #1 on his incredible wear protection scale.
grin.gif


For more detail on the M1 0w-40 change....see the Feb 2016 thread which is about 10 pages long.
 
I really liked the old stuff, it had a HTHS of 3.8. There is a UOA thread with the new one that shows it did a good job with the wear numbers but sheared badly to almost a 30w IIRC. The question I have is when pushed even further how much more will it shear and will we see increased engine wear?
Until UOA's show the new FS is staying in grade and not causing excess wear when used in vehicles that are using their OLM for longer service intervals I remain cautious. There are too many options available to worry about any possible consequences from using this oil in cars that spec a HTHS oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
There is a UOA thread with the new one that shows it did a good job with the wear numbers but sheared badly to almost a 30w IIRC.

To be fair, this new FS is a very thin 40-grade (12.9 cSt), so even a tiny viscosity drop is going to push it into the 30-grade territory.

But I agree, more long OCI UOAs on this oil would be nice to have before we judge.

Also, given that price is the same, I'd rather use Edge 0w-40 than M1 FS 0w-40.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Also, given that price is the same, I'd rather use Edge 0w-40 than M1 FS 0w-40.

Why?
 
Originally Posted By: DrRoughneck
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Also, given that price is the same, I'd rather use Edge 0w-40 than M1 FS 0w-40.

Why?

Edge 0w-40 has a proven track record, and it still meets the LL-01 spec.

It's also possibly made of higher quality base stocks, judging by its very low pour point.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: DrRoughneck
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Also, given that price is the same, I'd rather use Edge 0w-40 than M1 FS 0w-40.

Why?

Edge 0w-40 has a proven track record, and it still meets the LL-01 spec.

It's also possibly made of higher quality base stocks, judging by its very low pour point.


FWIW: I currently have the FS oil in my TGDI engine now and at ~4.5K miles (my normal OCI), I plan on getting a report done and compare it it my previous runs with the non-FS version. I will run the Castrol Edge 0W-40 oil next and do the same. At least that way, with my particular engine and the fuel dilution concerns I have, I can see which oil seems to be holding up better.
 
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