Lucid Air Gravity- Closing Gap W/ Ice

[Astro14]

Well, @JeffKeryk - if you want a road trip machine - I recommend a Mercedes S class with a twin turbo V-12. Smooth, quiet, effortless power, 500 mile range, easy to fill up. But the new Volvo XC90 T8 PHEV is about to take its place at the top of the list.

Our son has a Bolt EV. Great for DC, he zips around town, when not on the Metro, and charges when he needs to.

But it is terrible for the 180 mile trip to see us. He has to plan to charge on the way, or try and charge at his apartment the night before. On his visits, he has had to spend the entire morning of his departure trying to find charging. The Bolt has a max range of about 180 miles, so, even on a full charge, he has to stop.

A complete and utter pain. He can fill up with gasoline less than a mile away, but there are few chargers in town.

We installed the Tesla (full 60A set up) both for our PHEV and for his BEV. The Tesla allows for both NACS and J1772 charging. The PHEV XC90 uses J1772, but a full BEV Volvo uses NACS. We wanted both as a “future proof” installation.

Our experience with the PHEV has been illuminating. We got 28 MPG on our long trip (full review coming at some point) with our XC90 PHEV. It is EPA rated to get about 22 MPG in town.

We wouldn’t know. We owned it for 2 months before we drove it far enough to require use of gasoline.

It costs about 16 KWH to fully charge for our around town use. That’s about 34 miles. At 0.14/KWH for use (no off peak pricing plans make sense for us. Long story), it’s about $2.20 to “fill up” for 34 miles. We would use about $6.00 of premium to drive the same distance.

1/3 the cost per mile is very attractive.

 

[JHZR2]

It costs about 16 KWH to fully charge for our around town use. That’s about 34 miles. At 0.14/KWH for use (no off peak pricing plans make sense for us. Long story), it’s about $2.20 to “fill up” for 34 miles. We would use about $6.00 of premium to drive the same distance.

1/3 the cost per mile is very attractive.

Does VA have an EV registration surcharge? Believe NJ is now charging $200/yr to offset gas taxes. And our prices are lower/less taxed than much of VA.

I suspect that will become the norm in most places. Only about 2c/mi call it, so maybe $2.75/mi vs $2.20. Still compelling.

PHEV is where it’s at!

 

[Cujet]

PHEV is where it’s at!

With the various advancements, it sure does seem that a longer range PHEV is viable. Most miles are driven on battery POWA. But in the end, an EV with a huge battery pack will probably get longer pack life. As it is easier to manage all the factors that reduce cell life.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Our '18 Model 3 Mid Range was rated at 260 mile range, which is plenty for around town and shorter trips. However, there is no way you will realize that at freeway speeds. Plus I never charged to 100%, so the 260 number was irrelevant. I found it limiting at times, but still fell in love with the car and learned a lot about EV ownership.

Our M3P is rated at 300 mile range, but I never charge to 100%. The times I need the range I will be flying down the freeway, so the number further goes down. In almost 1 year of ownership, I've been on a Supercharger perhaps 3 or 4 times, and the 1st time was just a test. The Mid Range would have been once a month, minimum.

My larger point is, range is relevant to your use case. Is 500 mile range a requirement if you rarely use it? Range is an important parameter, as is charging availability. IMO many of the opinions are not necessarily reality; at least mine proved not to be. There is no one size fits all.

 

[JavierH19]

The last thing I'd ever want is to get fisker'd and end up with a big brick that needs to be connected to servers even if you're not paying for connectivity for it to work properly and needs special diagnostic computers and techs to unbrick it when random sensor #107 decided to be erratic for one second and permanently bricked the whole turd and needs that dealer scanner to unbrick it and there's no dealer or techs anymore cause the company went belly up.

Lucid is still bleeding out and doesn't look to be profitable even years away and is being propped up in a race to the bottom market since cars aren't really moat style business. It seems to be a white elephant project for the saudi's as they own over half the company. Maybe they'll still have the desire to flush more cash down that toilet or maybe they'll pull the plug on it all together.

This is from yesterday

https://www.pcmag.com/news/fisker-e...post-bankruptcy-inside-the-failed-rescue-plan

 

[Fattylocks]

Cerainly. As I've said many times and advised many prospective customers, it depends on your use case

Are you a Tesla salesperson?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Are you a Tesla salesperson?

No, I am happily retired. But I am a happy customer, if that helps. Not sure I would be a good car salesman, because I would struggle selling the wrong vehicle to a customer. A friend was very successful in the Silicon Valley car business, Ed is a legend. He took a small mom and pop Chevrolet - GM dealership, Anderson Chevrolet, in Menlo Park to one of the biggest fanchises in the Valley. I bought 2 Corvettes from him... That work is not for me for a number of reasons.

FYI, Tesla does not use car salesmen (or dealerships) in the traditional sense. Most of the sales are online; the "stores" are more for test drives and information. Our 1st purchase had the car delivered to our home, the 2nd I picked up at the Fremont factory right up the road. They did an online survey of our trade in but did not physically inspect it during the brief paperwork.

Soooo easy.

 

[UncleDave]

My takeaway, Lucid's system voltage choice does not match current chargers, so they use boost tech to make it happen. Neat, that's for sure. Great for trips, where time is of the essence.

For those that didnt bother it also interesting to know Hyundai also uses the rear end of the car as a booster but to much less effect, they're only able to sustain 100KW with their scheme.

This basically Hobbles the H/K cars transit times at superchargers where as the lucid is more than double the hyundais speed at a 210 for up to 16 minutes crushing almost all teslas themselves.

 

[Fattylocks]

No, I am happily retired. But I am a happy customer, if that helps. Not sure I would be a good car salesman, because I would struggle selling the wrong vehicle to a customer. A friend was very successful in the Silicon Valley car business, Ed is a legend. He took a small mom and pop Chevrolet - GM dealership, Anderson Chevrolet, in Menlo Park to one of the biggest fanchises in the Valley. I bought 2 Corvettes from him... That work is not for me for a number of reasons.

FYI, Tesla does not use car salesmen (or dealerships) in the traditional sense. Most of the sales are online; the "stores" are more for test drives and information. Our 1st purchase had the car delivered to our home, the 2nd I picked up at the Fremont factory right up the road. They did an online survey of our trade in but did not physically inspect it during the brief paperwork.

Soooo easy.

Was just curious. If I wanted a full electric no doubt it would be a Tesla.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Was just curious. If I wanted a full electric no doubt it would be a Tesla.

Since I was an early adopter, lotsa people have inquired about the car. My guess is I have disuaded many prospective customers.
"How ya gonna charge?" You would be surprised at the lack of understanding. 120V doesn't cut it. Service panel? Charge at work?
"You know these cars are expensive, right?" If you are looking for economy, consider Honda/Toyota.
In the early days, Tesla's viability was highly suspect. Shoulda bought stock instead of the dang car!!!!

Of course now, in Silicon Valley, Teslas and EVs are everywhere. On my block there are numerous Model 3 and Y, a Kia, Taycan, Bolts and a Lightning. Gone is the early RAV4 Tesla and the Leafs.
Here's right down the street; I'd drive it!

 

[AZjeff]

And I have learned to hate wasting time at gas stations.

You're retired brother. 10 minutes tops front to back to fill up is a huge time waster in your week? If you choose to wait in line at Costco to save a few bucks it's your choice. Have you calc'd the cost per mile on you first Tesla all things considered? Did it make economic sense?

Today I talked with a guy at the trailhead who drove from SoCal to ride his bike here at Grand Junction. He drives a 2021 MY has 100k trouble free miles and loves it and does road trips a lot. So there's that.

 

[JeffKeryk]

You're retired brother. 10 minutes tops front to back to fill up is a huge time waster in your week? If you choose to wait in line at Costco to save a few bucks it's your choice. Have you calc'd the cost per mile on you first Tesla all things considered? Did it make economic sense?

Today I talked with a guy at the trailhead who drove from SoCal to ride his bike here at Grand Junction. He drives a 2021 MY has 100k trouble free miles and loves it and does road trips a lot. So there's that.

I hit Costco early; I hate lines. Plus I rarely gas up anything because I drive the Tesla.
As an early adopter, I took a bath on the 1st Tesla; I knew that going in. In fact, most were sure Tesla would go belly up any day. Wack Elon and his ex-NUMMI factory foibles were on the local news every night; it was an on-going comedy of errors. Nothing was working and Tesla/Musk were bleeding money.
I remember wondering why we bought the expensive car; we didn't need it. Remember in early-mid 2018 the automated assembly lines kept breaking down; in an act of desperation, they put up 2 huge tents in the parking lot to build cars.
We took delivery of the '18 Mid Range in late December; I think the car was $52K all in (EAP, white paint, alloy wheels as options) but I did get the tax credit as there was no income requirement. (Shoulda bought stock.) I did not drive the car for months because I had had surgery. COVID curtailed a lot of driving; wifey worked at home. The car was originally for her; I preferred the GS and Tundra. As time went on, I used it more and more; it became more mine than hers. The Model 3 is a really fun car, even the lessor Mid Range. I traded it in this past June on the '24 M3P; got about $21K. The Mid Range was perfect and had 25K on the clock. Someone got a great car. Being an early adopter is always gonna be expensive.

 

[Torrid]

Was just curious. If I wanted a full electric no doubt it would be a Tesla.

Good or bad the vibe around Tesla depending on your beliefs, the cars are great. The only real issue I run into is people who are upset about EVs or upset about Elon. The majority of that is online anyway.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Good or bad the vibe around Tesla depending on your beliefs, the cars are great. The only real issue I run into is people who are upset about EVs or upset about Elon. The majority of that is online anyway.

I would buy another in a heartbeat if I needed a car. The M3P is that good and works for me.

 

[Torrid]

I would buy another in a heartbeat if I needed a car. The M3P is that good and works for me.

I had this conversation with my wife the other day again. The negative attention gives her some pause though we've yet to experience it in person, but neither of us can think of a single car either of us would legitimately consider to replace what we have now. That said if I had to buy new again, I'd go for the Model 3 Performance just because I don't care for the new Model Y and even then there's still not a Performance available.

 

[Brons2]

6000 lbs is too much. Way too much

Less than the Lincoln Navigator that I sold late last year.

A lot less than most of the current crop of heavy duty trucks. A Ram 3500 with the Cummins weighs 9200 dry.

 

[97prizm]

Ya know, that's pretty true.
Reluctance to change is a tough one...

I think that if a large percentage go ev then instead of "Big Oil" you'll hear it's a conspiracy with "Big Electricity ".

 

[JeffKeryk]

I think that if a large percentage go ev then instead of "Big Oil" you'll hear it's a conspiracy with "Big Electricity ".

Yeah, we like our conspiracy theories...

 

[UncleDave]

Less than the Lincoln Navigator that I sold late last year.

A lot less than most of the current crop of heavy duty trucks. A Ram 3500 with the Cummins weighs 9200 dry.

This is thing.

Heavy compared to what? A navigator, Tahoe, Suburban, Aviator, Sequoia ? Model X?

Something in its capability envelope.. now all of the sudden it's not that heavy anymore.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Less than the Lincoln Navigator that I sold late last year.

A lot less than most of the current crop of heavy duty trucks. A Ram 3500 with the Cummins weighs 9200 dry.

Comparing the weight of Sumo wrestlers doesn’t mean that they all can’t lose a few pounds. A good comparison size wise would be a VW Atlas and that is roughly 1500lbs lighter. That is still a porker in my book.