Lucid Air Gravity- Closing Gap W/ Ice

[Torrid]

Closing gap ? What gap ?
If anything, the gap is widening, that's how much ahead Lucid is of anybody and anything else. Acceleration close to that of an F1 from 30 years ago (for reference - since its beginnings, F1 cars have been leaps and bounds ahead even in just straight line acceleration compared to anything stock, from the 50s and up), operating costs to make a Civic cry, comfort to make a Cadillac blush...

And sadly, design to make a 90s Buick proud, it is true.

My usual fill-up is 15-ish gallons. At my local Shell, every other time I hit a slow pump (especially when someone else is filling up on the other side of the pump) - I timed it at 6 minutes to fill up last time. Not every time, but often enough to be an issue. Last time even the guy on the other side of the pump asked me "man, is your pump working ?". Pressure was so weak it overfilled and started pouring out, the pressure in the hose was not high enough to trigger the auto-cut.

We hold EVs to an impossible standard, but all is shiny once we grab that hose.

The gap is only widening. Only - in the other direction.

You know all of the horror stories people have about less than 300 miles of range being a huge issue. I wanted it to work for me and it's easier than I thought. Then I worried about getting rid of my last ICE car for all EVs. It's easier than anything I've ever had to drive. It saves me time instead of having two fueling stops a week. I'm never going back to that.

Lucid is on another planet with development. It's why they're so expensive though.

 

[JeffKeryk]

We hold EVs to an impossible standard, but all is shiny once we grab that hose.

Ya know, that's pretty true.
Reluctance to change is a tough one...

 

[UncleDave]

You know all of the horror stories people have about less than 300 miles of range being a huge issue. I wanted it to work for me and it's easier than I thought. Then I worried about getting rid of my last ICE car for all EVs. It's easier than anything I've ever had to drive. It saves me time instead of having two fueling stops a week. I'm never going back to that.

Lucid is on another planet with development. It's why they're so expensive though.

People invent reasons for not liking them, a big one is conveniently forgetting about how much time they spend fueling and going to fueling stations.

Some guys wont even try to walk through the trip time numbers which is always odd to me.

We're almost at a point where you can charge at fill rate which is the benchmark an inordinate number of people seem to be clinging too.

This things a beast.

Seats 7 comfortably,
Tows 6K
has 450 miles of range
120CF of cargo space in the 5 seater, 111 in the 7.
AWD
5.2-9.3" clearance
Does 0-60 in 3.4


This thing swallows electricity at an incredible rate. Look at the curve on it - and it's repeatable.

It's expensive but the price will come down and this 2170 battery will proliferate.

 

[alarmguy]

People invent reasons for not liking them, a big one is conveniently forgetting about how much time they spend fueling and going to fueling stations.

Some guys wont even try to walk through the trip time numbers which is always odd to me.

We're almost at a point where you can charge at fill rate which is the benchmark an inordinate number of people seem to be clinging too.

This things a beast.

Seats 7 comfortably,
Tows 6K
has 450 miles of range
120CF of cargo space in the 5 seater, 111 in the 7.
AWD
5.2-9.3" clearance
Does 0-60 in 3.4


This thing swallows electricity at an incredible rate. Look at the curve on it - and it's repeatable.

It's expensive but the price will come down and this 2170 battery will proliferate.

View attachment 279685

What is the tow range with a 5000lb trailer?

The time it takes and place to charge a vehicle is a legitimate inconvenience for a significant part of the population.

The price is also a legitimate problem for a significant part of the population.

The above are not “invented reasons”

 

[UncleDave]

What is the tow range with a 5000lb trailer?

The time it takes and place to charge a vehicle is a legitimate inconvenience for a significant part of the population.

The price is also a legitimate problem for a significant part of the population.

The above are not “invented reasons”

Good question we'll find out. My guess would be half at best but likely less than that probably closer to 1/3.

IF one can charge at home, and I realize not everyone can, there's a good chance one would spend less total time "fueling" than with an ice vehicle.

I fully recognize this particular vehicle is FAR from every mans car, but more of an example of what can be done. In that anyone can build a battery with panasonic 2170's there is nothing secret about what the company is doing.

It's also true that tons of guys wont even do the math to learn what the real world metrics might be in a BEV they could afford.
They just wont even do the math or engage in a real world discussion about it.

Long distance towing is one of those tipping points to keep buying ice.

I know Id be challenged by owning only one vehicle that was a BEV because of this.
For me personally even this would not work as a solo vehicle.

 

[IcarusLSC]

I love what Lucid is doing.
I wonder how their cars/batteries handle the cold?

 

[UncleDave]

I love what Lucid is doing.
I wonder how their cars/batteries handle the cold?

Good question.

I dont think we can apply what we may know about Lucids other batteries to this one.

 

[goblin]

I love what Lucid is doing.
I wonder how their cars/batteries handle the cold?

However their insulation handles it. I doubt that their batteries have their bottoms open to the ice and slush.

My concerns with charging are no longer with speed. It's slower than gassing up, but it's fine.
My concern is with the charging stations not being attended like gas stations are, and the random destruction and damage that can wait for me when I pull over to charge.

Then again, one would only charge during a trip, so for anyone with their own parking spot with a plug, it's a no-brainer.
Not proselytizing for EVs, just not looking for artificial excuses to hate them.

 

[UncleDave]

However their insulation handles it. I doubt that their batteries have their bottoms open to the ice and slush.

My concerns with charging are no longer with speed. It's slower than gassing up, but it's fine.
My concern is with the charging stations not being attended like gas stations are, and the random destruction and damage that can wait for me when I pull over to charge.

Then again, one would only charge during a trip, so for anyone with their own parking spot with a plug, it's a no-brainer.
Not proselytizing for EVs, just not looking for artificial excuses to hate them.

Interesting concern. I never saw either as fundamentally any different. With fueling stations, trouble can easily stay out of site of any attendant.
An attendant inside a store with no clear view of huge lot at the far end of a large truck stop might as well be an unattended location.

At an EV charging station you are surrounded by EV's and people sitting in them coming and going.
It seems a very difficult place to operate as a thug, and unless the thug is driving an EV will they stick out like a sore thumb.
The places I've stopped are extremely well lit and you can see people coming a long way away, but for sure only a very few have a clear view of an attendant

It must be awful feeling vulnerable, or worrying about it. I should probably be more concerned than I am about than I am.

 

[goblin]

...
At an EV charging station you are surrounded by EV's and people sitting in them coming and going.
...

So, at least till 3-4 years ago (I know things change) - an army of soft targets, each one of them with an income proven to be high enough to be able to take advantage of the EV tax credit, high enough to buy a car in the $60k-$120k bracket, and captive - stuck there for at least a good 30-75 minutes

And - at least till recently, and things change there as well - much more likely to have a copy of Das Kapital in their glove box as primary self-defence weapon, unlike what the owner of a $60-$120k pickup truck would haul around.

Just kidding. I meant - more of a concern about finding charging stations sabotaged and not operating, rather than anything else.

 

[Torrid]

So, at least till 3-4 years ago (I know things change) - an army of soft targets, each one of them with an income proven to be high enough to be able to take advantage of the EV tax credit, high enough to buy a car in the $60k-$120k bracket, and captive - stuck there for at least a good 30-75 minutes

And - at least till recently, and things change there as well - much more likely to have a copy of Das Kapital in their glove box as primary self-defence weapon, unlike what the owner of a $60-$120k pickup truck would haul around.

Just kidding. I meant - more of a concern about finding charging stations sabotaged and not operating, rather than anything else.

The caps for tax credits are $55k with cars and $80k for trucks. Just as a point of reference.

 

[JHZR2]

Utility is only a small factor in its price. The fact that it can beat any factory Chevrolet in a drag race comes into play as well.

There's nothing a dislike more than some crazy arbitrary comparison. You could do something similar with a Camry and an S-Class. I like value for money, but that's not what Lucid or just to make it hit home, what Jaguar does.

The ability of a giant expensive sedan to beat a Chevy in a drag race is nearly irrelevant to 99% of the population. And other marques have been able to do that with more storied brands and designs than this.

The lucid pack is a decent design. I’ve seen them, my folks have tested and, abused/blown them up.

But it’s another >100k piece of metal in a congested space, of limited interest to the bulk of the population. And still a depreciating asset with a calendar life.

That said, it is great tech and innovation. I just hope the tech makes it into more practical priced and better looking cars…

 

[Torrid]

The ability of a giant expensive sedan to beat a Chevy in a drag race is nearly irrelevant to 99% of the population. And other marques have been able to do that with more storied brands and designs than this.

The lucid pack is a decent design. I’ve seen them, my folks have tested and, abused/blown them up.

But it’s another >100k piece of metal in a congested space, of limited interest to the bulk of the population. And still a depreciating asset with a calendar life.

That said, it is great tech and innovation. I just hope the tech makes it into more practical priced and better looking cars…

No one buying this is considering anything Chevrolet makes which is entirely the point. The price of the Lucid wedges it into a specific spot that the majority won't consider, whether it's the price for what it offers or for not being able to afford it in the first place. The person buying a lightning fast EV is not an average buyer. I doubt the average buyer of a crossover is buying a Model Y Performance either. It takes some lunatic enthusiast to care about the power the vehicle makes.

 

[JHZR2]

You’re the one that said, “the fact that it can beat any factory Chevrolet in a drag race comes into play as well.”

Those who have the means want it to be faster than an AMG S-class whatever or the Porsche sedan. Chevy doesn’t make a corvette 4-dr.

The fact that a Chevy impala could beat it on range and cabin, “recharge” (refuel) faster, and last longer was a fair point too. Interesting how all this development and tech can’t quite match the operating capability of a sedan built 20 years ago.

Thus it’s a novel product and beating a Chevy as you said doesn’t matter to folks on the high or low end who are looking and talking about the car. It’s fast and has good tech (I brought up the battery), building on expertise of Tesla design and whatever else. I’ve seen a lot around here and the looks to me aren’t great. It’s not on my list as of now.

And lightning fast itself is practically worthless. Do it five times and the novelty runs off. Do it and go illegally fast and you’re braking the law. Try to accelerate ultra fast and you get in trouble really quick and run out of road. Sure, someone may want to buy the capability. Ok. But the real utility isn’t there, even for folks who want it and can afford it.

 

[AZjeff]

Lucid has never positioned as being affordable for the masses and likely never will be. Amazing tech and capacity for people able to buy $100k plus sedans. The number of these buyers that 3.4 0-60 and beating Corvettes drag racing are important specs has to be small. Just bragging rights that never get used. Fun to drive is a non-priority for the majority as well.

 

[JHZR2]

Lucid has never positioned as being affordable for the masses and likely never will be. Amazing tech and capacity for people able to buy $100k plus sedans. The number of these buyers that 3.4 0-60 and beating Corvettes drag racing are important specs has to be small. Just bragging rights that never get used. Fun to drive is a non-priority for the majority as well.

Exactly. IIRC the CEO came from Tesla after a spat with them… and a subsequent slug of investment from the Saudis, and some SPAC stocks (which have nose dived bigly).

So of course the business model will be the same. Outlandish specs and claims, high end engineering and product that is exclusive and only high end buyers can afford.

On a similar note, always thought it was stupid that they claimed the M3 was competing with 5er and E-class. Reality is that if Lucid and Tesla was all one product line, the Air would compete with the S/7, the Tesla S with the 5/E, and the model 3 with the C/3er.

 

[UncleDave]

You’re the one that said, “the fact that it can beat any factory Chevrolet in a drag race comes into play as well.”

Those who have the means want it to be faster than an AMG S-class whatever or the Porsche sedan. Chevy doesn’t make a corvette 4-dr.

The fact that a Chevy impala could beat it on range and cabin, “recharge” (refuel) faster, and last longer was a fair point too. Interesting how all this development and tech can’t quite match the operating capability of a sedan built 20 years ago.

Thus it’s a novel product and beating a Chevy as you said doesn’t matter to folks on the high or low end who are looking and talking about the car. It’s fast and has good tech (I brought up the battery), building on expertise of Tesla design and whatever else. I’ve seen a lot around here and the looks to me aren’t great. It’s not on my list as of now.

And lightning fast itself is practically worthless. Do it five times and the novelty runs off. Do it and go illegally fast and you’re braking the law. Try to accelerate ultra fast and you get in trouble really quick and run out of road. Sure, someone may want to buy the capability. Ok. But the real utility isn’t there, even for folks who want it and can afford it.

If we take the fun but somewhat silly 20 year old sedan comparison off the table for a minute and look at current alternatives about the only thing I can find that gives me similar envelope in utility is the Tahoe RST with the 6.2.

I won't consider an eco boost with an internal water pump, and all the Euro stuff is off the table, but Id be curious what anyone here would put up. A Sequoia maybe, I wouldnt consider a wagoneer.

Outfitted full up its going to cost me over 80 large . So the delta between configs is really about 30K the way Id outfit it. - Tahoe.

Can I say the GM 6.2 and its 10 speed are going to give me reliable performance for a decade of hard use? Not long ago Id gibe the edge to the small block but there have been lots of problems, and not just with lifters - since there isnt a recall on the lucid at the moment Ill give this one to the Lucid.

They both have about the same seating and cargo, . I think there are few more feet in the back of the tahoe but the lucid has a frunk - Tie.

They weight close enough to where it doesn't matter. Tie.

They both perform well, but the lucid wins here with authority and is immune to altitude based perfomance degradation. Lucid.

The tahoe tows a little more, but I'm good with 5K. Tahoe.

The lucid is FAR easier to live with day to day and far more economical. I can charge the Lucid off my roof. Lucid

Im going to get triple or more brake life from the Lucid because of regen, whats a full brembo brake job cost ? Lucid.

Fueling on a road trip - for me these are the same, but I'll give it to the Tahoe because no one here uses a bathroom buys coffee washes their windows, or gets a snack - Tahoe.

Overall maintenance over 100K miles - Lucid.

 

[JHZR2]

If we take the fun but somewhat silly 20 year old sedan comparison off the table for a minute and look at current alternatives about the only thing I can find that gives me similar envelope in utility is the Tahoe RST with the 6.2.

I won't consider an eco boost with an internal water pump, and all the Euro stuff is off the table, but Id be curious what anyone here would put up. A Sequoia maybe, I wouldnt consider a wagoneer.

Outfitted full up its going to cost me over 80 large . So the delta between configs is really about 30K the way Id outfit it. - Tahoe.

Can I say the GM 6.2 and its 10 speed are going to give me reliable performance for a decade of hard use? Not long ago Id gibe the edge to the small block but there have been lots of problems, and not just with lifters - since there isnt a recall on the lucid at the moment Ill give this one to the Lucid.

They both have about the same seating and cargo, . I think there are few more feet in the back of the tahoe but the lucid has a frunk - Tie.

They weight close enough to where it doesn't matter. Tie.

They both perform well, but the lucid wins here with authority and is immune to altitude based perfomance degradation. Lucid.

The tahoe tows a little more, but I'm good with 5K. Tahoe.

The lucid is FAR easier to live with day to day and far more economical. I can charge the Lucid off my roof. Lucid

Im going to get triple or more brake life from the Lucid because of regen, whats a full brembo brake job cost ? Lucid.

Fueling on a road trip - for me these are the same, but I'll give it to the Tahoe because no one here uses a bathroom buys coffee washes their windows, or gets a snack - Tahoe.

Overall maintenance over 100K miles - Lucid.

I find that all rather dubious, given that how many of those cars have actually been sold? How much real expertise?

We’re really talking about lifecycle cost on things like obnoxiously large brembo brakes, on a >$100k toy??!? If that’s a consideration, the buyer can’t afford it. It’s why you see all kinds of euro jalopies in poor neighborhoods busted up.

I expect the same with the Licid in a few, if the company even survives.

 

[UncleDave]

I find that all rather dubious, given that how many of those cars have actually been sold? How much real expertise?

We’re really talking about lifecycle cost on things like obnoxiously large brembo brakes, on a >$100k toy??!? If that’s a consideration, the buyer can’t afford it. It’s why you see all kinds of euro jalopies in poor neighborhoods busted up.

I expect the same with the Licid in a few, if the company even survives.

The sedans have moved a bunch, by electric standards. The gravity is new.

Which part is dubious? I listed a lot of categories I " think" you mean reliability.
Are you purporting to give the GM the nod in this category?
Up until a few weeks ago I would have solidly put the 6.2 rig on top.
The 10 speed seems contentious.

We're comparing 100K "toys" here.
I dont think the toy label is totally fair as both have tremendous utility if expensive.

For sure there are cheaper ways and version of this utility, much like autos and buying old stuff, or stripped down used stuff or new low end versions.
Im not at all trying to debate this cant be done cheaper I know it can, but id Im expecting to spend tremendous seat and work time in a new ride, and want a premium environment.

Both vehicles have brembos on them and for good reason they are fast heavy and expect to be towing.
I can afford to maintain what I buy, that that said - there is a large delta in the consumption between the two device one will get markedly more life longer life out of these same components and gets a nod for that.

 

[Cujet]

The ability of a giant expensive sedan to beat a Chevy in a drag race is nearly irrelevant to 99% of the population.

That’s my point. The thread was about the ‘gap closing’ and quite simply, it’s not. The price differential stands as a barrier to entry. With every EV brand.

Something big and capable in the EV world is well into the luxury car range and touching on exotic car price territory.

The ‘affordable’ model 3 is exactly the same size as a Nissan Sentra. At twice the price. While that may be good enough for many, it’s not a full sized vehicle.

The gap is as wide as ever because I can’t afford any of them