LSJr - Viscosity Breakdown: The Silent Engine Killer Revealed!

[oil pan 4]

Is 0w-40 an issue with shearing if it’s changed every 3k miles?

Yeah changing the oil every 3,000 miles solves pretty much everything aside from you're changing the oil every 3,000 miles.
Changing the oil a little more often say 3,000 to 4,000 miles does pretty much everything the super expensive oils do and usually does it cheaper.

 

[TiGeo]

Is 0w-40 an issue with shearing if it’s changed every 3k miles?

In my experience, that shearing, and Lake says it, can happen almost immediately...only way to know is to do your own testing.

 

[TiGeo]

Yeah changing the oil every 3,000 miles solves pretty much everything aside from you're changing the oil every 3,000 miles.
Changing the oil a little more often say 3,000 to 4,000 miles does pretty much everything the super expensive oils do and usually does it cheaper.

Not quite...how does that impact the base chemistry etc.? It doesn't. Using the higher end products like HPL's upper end line isn't replicated by using M1 0W40 and changing it more frequently.

 

[fantastic]

Don't forget Noack, too. Also, remember: "as thin as possible, as thick as necessary." There is always a balance.
I would always run Castrol Edge 0W30 over Motul 5W40, Mobil1 0W40 or Castrol 0W40. Only reason I don't is track, and crap load of Motul I have on the shelf. If I did not do track in summer, I would still run Edge 0W30. On track, your argument stands. It is better to have bunch of margin, especially if running longer OCI and tracking car. But street use? Shear stable 0/5W30 would always be my choice over 0W40. But that is where I draw the line as far as how thin I would go.

I generally agree that an overall good product with low noack is a great start.

Though, Mostly a balance to meet OEM mpg ratings. A 0w-40 would still be thicker than 0w-30. I'd still rather add some oil for the added protection (if necessary). Now depending on how bad the shearing is the thicker oil could come to a crossroads and meet the same viscosity as a 30. Still has added protection up to that point. Most of us don't recommend a 40 grade for a 20 grade specd engine so most of us already follow a good balance of thick vs thin analogy.

However as this video demonstrates there and Depending on the quality of base oils their are sheer stable grades that probably have good noack as well.

We could use some noack numbers though and that would be helpful to see on any grade or brand on their spec sheets.

 

[oil pan 4]

Not quite...how does that impact the base chemistry etc.? It doesn't. Using the higher end products like HPL's upper end line isn't replicated by using M1 0W40 and changing it more frequently.

I said pretty much everything. Cheap base chemistry is still cheap base chemistry.

 

[DirectRejection]

This type of content is great and reflects well on HPL. David did an excellent job.

Works for me !

 

[Jetronic]

It might. Would be interesting to see for sure.

I believe the base oils are more expensive than the VII, that's why they downgrade the base oils as soon as possible (like going from 0W-40 to 5W-40), and add more VII.

I have a no VII 10W-30 (3.5 HTHS) to use, it sure isn't cheap (but didn't break the bank either).

Is 0w-40 an issue with shearing if it’s changed every 3k miles?

It really depends on the engine, but shear doesn't matter if you take it into account. If I want to have 3.0cP HTHS minimum, I will start with an oil that's at least 3.5 cP

 

[chris719]

In my experience, that shearing, and Lake says it, can happen almost immediately...only way to know is to do your own testing.

Yup. My BMW LL-01FE sheared to 8.3 cSt with very little use (~3k miles). I’m going to guess you’ll see much of the shear under 1000 miles. Even the 1200 mile break-in changes on M3s etc. seem to show it, although we don’t have a factory fill VOA.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Yeah changing the oil every 3,000 miles solves pretty much everything aside from you're changing the oil every 3,000 miles.
Changing the oil a little more often say 3,000 to 4,000 miles does pretty much everything the super expensive oils do and usually does it cheaper.

I just ran 15,912 miles on HPL No VII Euro 5w30, for about $80 since I was able to pick it up in Manteno. That’s $5 per thousand miles.

If you’re using the average shelf oil from WM @ say $26.97, and use one filter for 5+ 3k OCIs to match my mileage, you come up with $143 just in oil, which comes out to $9 per thousand miles. If you change filters at every OCI, add in another $40-75. Plus the time, effort, and 24 extra quarts of waste oil to dispose of.

How exactly does this method come out to be cheaper?

 

[Astro14]

Is 0w-40 an issue with shearing if it’s changed every 3k miles?

It’s not really an issue at 10,000 miles, either.

So what if the 0W40 shears from 12.5 (minimum for a -40) to 11.9 in a 10,000 mile run?

Will that 11.9 CsT at 100C, instead of 12.5+ CsT, adversely impact your engine in any meaningful way?

So much of the oil’s actual viscosity depends on the precise temperature at which your engine oil runs during operation, that the difference of a few percent is viscosity as measured at 100C is effectively meaningless.

I wouldn’t worry about it.

 

[buster]

I'd be more concerned about oxidation than shearing. You want to limit nucleation and formation of deposits.

 

[Astro14]

Yeah changing the oil every 3,000 miles solves pretty much everything aside from you're changing the oil every 3,000 miles.
Changing the oil a little more often say 3,000 to 4,000 miles does pretty much everything the super expensive oils do and usually does it cheaper.

No. It does not.

I have said this before, no, a 3,000 mile OCI doesn’t “solve” anything except to clean out your wallet more frequently, and perhaps more deeply, than running the correct oil specification at the proper interval.

An oil of the wrong specification, changed every 3000 miles, can still lead to sludge and severe engine damage.

Many times on this forum, I have posted pictures of the sludge and carbon in the engine that was caused by using the wrong specification, even on a short OCI.

Specification matters. Even at 3,000 miles.

 

[TiGeo]

It’s not really an issue at 10,000 miles, either.

So what if the 0W40 shears from 12.5 (minimum for a -40) to 11.9 in a 10,000 mile run?

Will that 11.9 CsT at 100C, instead of 12.5+ CsT, adversely impact your engine in any meaningful way?

So much of the oil’s actual viscosity depends on the precise temperature at which your engine oil runs during operation, that the difference of a few percent is viscosity as measured at 100C is effectively meaningless.

I wouldn’t worry about it.

I saw one of the biggest drops in viscosity using M1 0W40 - ended at 10.0 cST with 5K miles on it.

 

[DirectRejection]

I just ran 15,912 miles on HPL No VII Euro 5w30, for about $80 since I was able to pick it up in Manteno. That’s $5 per thousand miles.

If you’re using the average shelf oil from WM @ say $26.97, and use one filter for 5+ 3k OCIs to match my mileage, you come up with $143 just in oil, which comes out to $9 per thousand miles. If you change filters at every OCI, add in another $40-75. Plus the time, effort, and 24 extra quarts of waste oil to dispose of.

How exactly does this method come out to be cheaper?

Preach Brutha.

 

[#18FAN]

I saw one of the biggest drops in viscosity using M1 0W40 - ended at 10.0 cST with 5K miles on it.

Zero fuel in sample?

 

[TiGeo]

Zero fuel in sample?

My car always has a little I'd say but nothing that caused that much of a drop. Yes, I know it's a BS sample so they aren't measuring it directly but no way that is all fuel. Flashpoint was 405 which is in a normal range for an oil with a touch of fuel but nothing egregious. Of course any data point can be a incorrect, just reporting my results and I've been doing UOAs for over 100K/6 years each oil change on this car, I have a lot of data.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I saw one of the biggest drops in viscosity using M1 0W40 - ended at 10.0 cST with 5K miles on it.

Yeah but you drive your car like it’s second-hand stolen on the track. Impressive for sure but isn’t your engine family known to be hard on oils?

% wise (because I’m fairly sure you’ve likely done it already) what were your viscosity dips on all the different oils you’ve tracked with?

 

[tolian21]

I did not understand most of the video. Thicker viscosity is better for protection, right?

 

[kschachn]

My car always has a little I'd say but nothing that caused that much of a drop. Yes, I know it's a BS sample so they aren't measuring it directly but no way that is all fuel. Flashpoint was 405 which is in a normal range for an oil with a touch of fuel but nothing egregious. Of course any data point can be a incorrect, just reporting my results and I've been doing UOAs for over 100K/6 years each oil change on this car, I have a lot of data.

Even if it wasn't fuel, at the same time I have difficulty putting much faith in any value or measurement Blackstone makes. We've seen lots of errors on both spectrographic and viscometric measurements.

 

[TiGeo]

Yeah but you drive your car like it’s second-hand stolen on the track. Impressive for sure but isn’t your engine family known to be hard on oils?

% wise (because I’m fairly sure you’ve likely done it already) what were your viscosity dips on all the different oils you’ve tracked with?

I have detailed files....that M1 data point didn't include any tracking. LM Molygen showed the lowest ending cST 100 of any 40 grade oil I've used. The HPL holds up the best (12+ with track use) which jives with what we saw in the LSJR video w/r to Start VII polymers.