LS1 Camaro and Auto RX

dave1251 · Feb 3, 2007

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If Pennzoil Platinum 5W40 is PAO then it's not Shell Helix Ultra 5W40 which is or was Group III.

Pennzoil Platinum is group III basestocks. At after Shell/Pennzoil decided to ditch EOP. If you like I can produce Pennzoil's tech support's response to my question on the basetstock of Pennzoil Platinum.

SargeGTO · Feb 3, 2007

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Well, I wouldn't expect you to do another run with 0w30 just to see ..there's no real point to it other then to verify the causal relationship. I doubt in that type of service/usage that there's too much of a disadvantage to using 15w40 ..at least one you could measure beyond dyno variance (I don't know).

Not to be too anal here ..but I'd have a hard time just saying that the visc was the cause here. That is, if I was into researching it and closing the doors on coincidental apparent cause:effect relationships. But I have to admit that I would not expect anyone with that type of investment in terms of $$$ to bother with any "what if"s. in terms of conclusive proof. You just eliminate the possibility and keep moving on.

I would (meaning me .myself), however, attempt to resist stating it in a way that might imply "fact"...if you see what I mean

What you've got here (meaning BITOG), and I'm surely included, is a few people that have "eyezgotztwonoz" syndrome. If there's an escape hatch for the reason for an event to occur ..and it hasn't been explored ..then it's not "proof" ...it just "suggests" that there may be a relationship.

There have been endless battles over viscosity here on BITOG. Plenty of them. There's a real tendency for many to seek solutions with viscosity and to find fault with lack of it. The habit is so prevalent that often some end up appearing like "anti-high viscosity" advocates ..simply to put a balance to it.

Thanks for eliminating the fuel thing as a possible source.

You missed your calling Gary

The Israeli's and Palestinians need you!Yes, we "fix it" and move on often times and your correct we should probably spend more time with post op and some issues. My PM box has been busy with advise on BITOG "personalities" and I appreciate all of them. I also have a L89 Corvette I run fairly hard and gets outstanding used oil analysis on Pennzoil Platinum 10-30. We have tried a few 30 weights in the LSx motors and just keep going back to the 40 weights. Just seem to work so I stay with em. We cannot UOA every change of oil that's for sure. Wish I could. But we change oil so often ( for many reason outside of just time to change the oil) we could never keep enough test kits

I'm not advocating a thick nor thin for all, just shared my personal experiance. But thank you for your input. I appreciate it.

SargeGTO · Feb 3, 2007

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The ideal LS1/x engine design does not require nor do 99% of my LS ( modded or not) customers run lubricants that would test >12.5cSt @100C. Those that do needlessly waste HP,economy ( for a street machine), the benefit of additional cooling from the lower vis, and plenty of wear protection. The idea that 0w vs 5w or 10w or 15w directly impacts adherance or betterfilm strength or surfactancy is total baloney. ( I think that was mentioned on a Ford 5.0 post in another thread). Molecular structure, polar attraction,additives being activated would change some attributes of operation. i.e. Auto-RX can improve ring seal if it cleans them first. RX might help film strength and ring sealing but the level would need to be experimented with. Based on the data here the engine is clean internally.

The engine that is the focus of this thread is problematic and indeed a build execution issue. Aside from rebuilding again maybe a heavier oil will lower piston rocking in the bore and the resultant blowby that is intermittant and mixed in with intermittant fuel dilute. Using GC0w30 and LC is exactly what I would recommend 7 months ago. If the customer was unhappy with that regimen and communicated with me directly I could now recommend the CJ4 Rotella 10w30,LC to control blowby if still an issue, Pennzoil Platinum 10w30 for sure.... MAYBE even Platinum 5w40 but analysis would consider that needless until it shears into 12.** cSt! No need for LC with Platinum initially because of low oxidation rates inherent in the Platinum chemistry.

Amsoil ACD might help with a poor engine build too. And there are many LS1 engines out there that fit the description.

My advice seems to be in direct conflict with internet rumors and advice to the contrary. I haven't changed in spite of that until testing of each analysis of each unit I work would show differently. Hey if 20w-50 or 15w40 was optimum it would be recommended, we want the best for our customers! We care about what works.

Shell Rotella T 15w40 CI4 does not nor did it contain 3000ppm of Magnesium. SGT you would do better to try Shell Rotella T 10w30 CJ4, warm it carefully before racing though. Have we ever done work for your racing program?

There is always more to properly interpreted oil analysis than spread sheets of the raw data with no detailed input on hundreds of variables that affected that result.

SGT, I would welcome the opportunity to provide the needed service for your racing efforts!

Well now I will not pass on the opportunity to work with you on this "project". I learned a long time ago to seize the opportunity when a expert offers services or advise. I'll find your website I guess here somewhere and order some test kits. I will work with you and setup the best testing methodology/processes ( hours on oil,runs,fuel etc.) and maybe this old man can get "schooled"

Thanks, this should be fun and informative for some LSX owners out there.

buster · Feb 3, 2007

Cool, sounds like Terry could be of help here. Go for it...

I'm surprised none of you mentioned Redline? Terry??

427Z06 · Feb 3, 2007

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Shell Rotella T 15w40 CI4 does not nor did it contain 3000ppm of Magnesium.

Never seen a formula that contained 1000ppm of Zn and while only 79ppm of P either. Some new form of ZDDP?

Terry · Feb 3, 2007

Sarge, www.dysonanalysis.com , thanks!

I don't school anyone,leave that to the educators ( Molakule comes to mind!), just do my best with oil analysis and interactive consult for almost 30 years.

I have found that I am not a good teacher, too busy trying to keep a tribological consulting business moving!

Terry

Terry · Feb 3, 2007

Buster, no, RL is showing variations in additive RECENTLY that has me wondering if raw materials costs, availability are an issue. 5w30,10w30 RL is a good choice for the average LS SB but remember analysis baseline is needed for the unit BEFORE any recommendations are made.

SargeGTO · Feb 3, 2007

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Sarge, www.dysonanalysis.com , thanks!

I don't school anyone,leave that to the educators ( Molakule comes to mind!), just do my best with oil analysis and interactive consult for almost 30 years.

I have found that I am not a good teacher, too busy trying to keep a tribological consulting business moving!

Terry

I forgot. In your first post you question the makeup from the BlackStone analysis. It is very probable there was SLOB or VSOT in that Rotella also.

dailydriver · Feb 4, 2007

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Buster, no, Red Line is showing variations in additive RECENTLY that has me wondering if raw materials costs, availability are an issue. 5w30,10w30 Red Line is a good choice for the average LS SB but remember analysis baseline is needed for the unit BEFORE any recommendations are made.

I noticed just how inappropriate Red Line 5W-40 was for my internally stock LS1 once our ambient temps fell to their "normal" wintertime averages. But then again, it IS one of the thickest (if not THE thickest?), at BOTH ends of the cSt specs of ALL of the 5W-40s. It could possibly be too thick even for my locale's summertime ambients summertime ambients.

Anyway, a big THANKS to all who contributed to this topic (and any/all other engine oil/auto lube topics). This is some interesting and informative stuff, and the reason I came to this site in the first place. Keep it going.

buster · Feb 4, 2007

Amsoil's SM rated 10w30 looks like it could be a good choice for these engines. New additive package is impressive.

LS1 Camaro and Auto RX

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