Lowering ATF temperature

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Falcon_LS

Falcon_LS

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I'm currently running Motorcraft Mercon V in my 4R70W, and keep an eye on fluid temperature constantly through my ScanGauge-II. Usually it's been within the 150-170 range since I started keeping an eye on it in February.

As the weather's started to warm up (104 - 122 F range), I've noticed the transmission fluid temperature's now started creeping into the mid to high 180s, which is a bit high for my liking. The vehicle's equipped with a factory ATF and PSF cooler, but the average is still 180 F.

I'm due for a ATF change in about 3,000 miles, during which I drain the torque converter and drop the pan to replace the filter. Takes about 13L to refill, which is its fluid capacity.

I'm considering switching over to Liqui-Moly's Top Tec 1200 ATF, which is a multi-vehicle fluid comprising of Group III basestock officially meeting Ford's Mercon V spec. I'm just wondering if the Group III basestock will help lower ATF temperatures. Is there anything else I can do to keep it in the 170-180 F range? Thanks!
 
LG red helps lower ATF temps. A cooler however is the best thing to use. 180-185F really isn't terrible at all, considering where you live.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
LG red helps lower ATF temps. A cooler however is the best thing to use. 180-185F really isn't terrible at all, considering where you live.


Yea, I'd add the LG Red.
 
absolutely nothing wrong with 180 degrees. Many cars like mine have a tstat on them now to assure minimum trans temps stay consistently over 150-160 degrees.

LG red is always a great addition to any slushbox. I use it and recommend it. But for a real significant reduction in temps get a little extra cooler and add it in.
 
Thanks for all the input!
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Originally Posted By: toyota62
An additional Transmission Oil cooler will lower the ATF temperature Better than oil base types.I have seen few with a electric cooling fan.(Comes on with the radiator fans.)

http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Oil_Coolers-content.aspx


I'm going to have a dig further into this. Problem's likely to be space. I've got the AC condenser behind the grille, the ATF/PSF cooler behind it and the radiator behind that. So the 2-speed electric fan works for all three. Will have to look into where I can locate an extra fan.


Originally Posted By: demarpaint
LG red helps lower ATF temps. A cooler however is the best thing to use. 180-185F really isn't terrible at all, considering where you live.


I used to use LubeGard Red, but I wasn't able to monitor ATF temperatures back then. Might be worthwhile giving it another go, see what sort of difference it makes.
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I remember seeing a chart on here not long ago, whereby 190 F was listed as the maximum street temperature for ATF. I suppose 180-185 is alright, although I reckon a Group III or IV ATF would be a good option, not because it runs cooler if at all, but so it does not break down as far as the Group II stuff I'm using now.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
absolutely nothing wrong with 180 degrees. Many cars like mine have a tstat on them now to assure minimum trans temps stay consistently over 150-160 degrees.

LG red is always a great addition to any slushbox. I use it and recommend it. But for a real significant reduction in temps get a little extra cooler and add it in.


Thanks for the reassurance! Would these temperatures have any affect on the clutch packs, etc or cause any varnish build up?
 
Temps aren't dangerous to the transmission parts until you exceed 250. The main reason you try to achieve low temps is for the oil... oxidations rates increase rapidly at temps over 160F. 180F in your climate is really quite good but a top notch oil will resist the effect of oxidation better so that's a great first step. It's counter productive to add a cooler or anything else that will block radiator flow. Truthfully, I think your prescription is a simple one... a top drawer ATF.
 
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS
I'm currently running Motorcraft Mercon V in my 4R70W, and keep an eye on fluid temperature constantly through my ScanGauge-II. Usually it's been within the 150-170 range since I started keeping an eye on it in February.

As the weather's started to warm up (104 - 122 F range), I've noticed the transmission fluid temperature's now started creeping into the mid to high 180s, which is a bit high for my liking. The vehicle's equipped with a factory ATF and PSF cooler, but the average is still 180 F.

I'm due for a ATF change in about 3,000 miles, during which I drain the torque converter and drop the pan to replace the filter. Takes about 13L to refill, which is its fluid capacity.

I'm considering switching over to Liqui-Moly's Top Tec 1200 ATF, which is a multi-vehicle fluid comprising of Group III basestock officially meeting Ford's Mercon V spec. I'm just wondering if the Group III basestock will help lower ATF temperatures. Is there anything else I can do to keep it in the 170-180 F range? Thanks!


I'd go with Amsoil ATF. Does the vehicle have a trans cooler? I assume so. Have you checked it to make sure its clean. Vacuum or water or air to clean it?
 
It sounds like about the perfect scenario for a syn ATF to shine. I'd switch and see what temperatures are.
 
I would go with both the better ATF and an aux cooler. Plate types have better cooling capacity than tube and fin...those without fans are reasonably cheap...

Though the manufacturers generally recommned it in front, you don't have to mount it in front of the radiator or AC condenser...as long as it gets moving airflow.

I installed the B&M 70268 on my truck...along with a dedicated trans temp gauge, with the sensor in the pan...

http://bmracing.com/?page_id=1046
 
In Australia last January my rear diff reached 200F at outdoor temp of 100F (measured with IR thermometer), I am using synthetic gear oil and that did not worry me. The manual trans reached 170F, likewise synthetic fluid, not worried.
I think you have nothing to worry about, it doesn't get too much higher than 50C even in Kuwait?
The one thing that will really cause an auto trans to heat up in a 4x4 (other than towing) is driving in soft sand. Be sure to use low range when doing that in the Pajero.
But since you have a gauge you can watch it. Using a synthetic fluid is a good idea in your climate. Ester based fluids like Redline have the highest heat resistance (maybe up to 300F??) but any synthetic should be good up to 250F.

Charlie
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Temps aren't dangerous to the transmission parts until you exceed 250. The main reason you try to achieve low temps is for the oil... oxidations rates increase rapidly at temps over 160F. 180F in your climate is really quite good but a top notch oil will resist the effect of oxidation better so that's a great first step. It's counter productive to add a cooler or anything else that will block radiator flow. Truthfully, I think your prescription is a simple one... a top drawer ATF.


I agree....if your transmission runs too cool....that can cause problems as well. Keep it in the same range as the engine temp.
 
Just depends by what you mean with "range".

Many newer cars routinely run at 210 degrees or higher. Most trans are entering the 'rapid fluid degradation zone' at that temp.

I like a smaller flat plate type cooler out in front of everything. They can be quite compact and yet do a terrific job.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
absolutely nothing wrong with 180 degrees. Many cars like mine have a tstat on them now to assure minimum trans temps stay consistently over 150-160 degrees.


X2. Your ATF cooler almost certainly has a thermostat, the factory one in my truck does.

180* F ATF sounds great for a 122* outside air temp in Kuwait. I don't think you have anything to worry about.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
LG red helps lower ATF temps. A cooler however is the best thing to use. 180-185F really isn't terrible at all, considering where you live.


I wouldn't worry about it. Most manufactures recommend setting level somewhere between around 156-180 deg. 180, 190 isnt that bad. I would be guessing that if you were doing some hwy driving those temps would lower a little bit also.
 
Is the temperature of the transmission fluid at the pan somewhat accurate with a thermal gun? After an 80 mile trip I get readings ranging from 90-125 degrees at the pan.
 
Originally Posted By: JGW
Is the temperature of the transmission fluid at the pan somewhat accurate with a thermal gun? After an 80 mile trip I get readings ranging from 90-125 degrees at the pan.



(90-125 Fahrenheit or Celsius?)

I would say no, but I can't see where it could be more than 20* off. If your ATF is going through the radiator, I would at least expect somewhere near 150*F or higher.
 
Falcon

--Where is the temperature probe located? If it is in the sump, those are high temperatures. If it is in the line to the cooler, no problem. Keep in mind that the important factor is time-at-temperature, not just the temperature alone.

--Switching to a synthetic based ATF won't significantly lower the temperature (if at all), but it will allow the fluid to live longer at higher temperatures.

--Install the additional cooler. Use any type with will fit where you have space.
 
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