Lower zddp levels

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Duffyjr

Duffyjr

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I noticed in a couple posts in the VOA section that QSUD and Magnatec 5w30 were on the low end for Zink and Phosphorus. Is this going to be a trend with the SN+ oils and is this going to be a problem for older flat tappet engines?

I gut feeling is to stay away from them in my truck.
 
Originally Posted by Char Baby
What do you mean by lower Z & P levels?
Lower than 700-800 ppm?

Yes, QSUD is at ~650ppm P and ~550ppm Z.
 
There is a QSUD 5w30 UOA from Aug 7 that indicates 782 PPM zinc. Maybe just variance with testing? Probably need a few more samples to establish the truth before we ban an oil.
 
Last edited:
May be that why some oils have "For Newer Cars" on the label? Nothing I am interested in at this point and probably never as once the Pontiac's are gone there probably wont be another modern American car in my future only Euro, old 60's American or an old Land Cruiser or Supra.
 
Originally Posted by Chris142
Originally Posted by Linctex
Doesn't your '89 GMC Sierra use a roller cam?

Most didnt

I thought all of the old TBI truck motors were flat tappets.
 
Originally Posted by AVB
Originally Posted by Chris142
Originally Posted by Linctex
Doesn't your '89 GMC Sierra use a roller cam?

Most didnt

I thought all of the old TBI truck motors were flat tappets.

I don't know the exact specs but it seems that cars got the rollers and trucks got flat tappits. Although I have seen cars with flat tappets and trucks with roller cams.
 
No it will not be a problem for old flat tappet enines. Not unless the original flat tappet engine has been modified with a high lift cam and higher spring rates.
 
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
There is a QSUD 5w30 UOA from Aug 7 that indicates 782 PPM zinc. Maybe just variance with testing? Probably need a few more samples to establish the truth before we ban an oil.

That UOA looks quite different from the VOA posted of the dexos 1 gen 2 QSUD. The UOA shows a negligible amount of boron, while showing nearly 50% more calcium compared to the VOA.

Considering the difference in boron, calcium, zinc and phosphorous, I'd say that the it's quite likely that the d1g2 QSUD was not used in that UOA.
 
Originally Posted by Char Baby
What do you mean by lower Z & P levels?
Lower than 700-800 ppm?


Magnatec D1G2, 5w30 VOA from from 6/18/18, not as bad as the QSUD VOA which was dated almost a year ago that JustN89 posted.
Zink 695
Phos 672

Compared to: (just a couple I was looking at)

Valvoline Modern Engine full syn from website
Zink 850
Phos 800

Valvoline Daily Protection & Advanced full syn 5w30 from website
Zink 830
Phos 760

My engine is a flat tappet and just don't think I want to go any lower. Was just lookong around trying to pick a good 5w30 for winter for my truck, I think the Daily Protection will work.
 
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
No it will not be a problem for old flat tappet enines. Not unless the original flat tappet engine has been modified with a high lift cam and higher spring rates.

That is not true, it can still cause excessive wear even on standard well worn in cams, i know a guy who has a Triumph TR4 who was using Valvoline Vr1 20w50 in it for a long time, thought it wa sa bit expensive so swicthed to Castrol GTX 20w50, about a year later the engine all of the sudden starts to have a dead miss and is misfiring and running very rough.

He takes the engine out to look at it and he takes the cam and lifters out, sure enough 3 or 4 lobes were flat...

He had run the engine for over 10 years on Vr1 prior to that.
 
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Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
What are you sing now Rotella T5 10W-30? stick with that.


Before last winter I would agree with this and in the past I've always run 10w30 in the winter but after last year I'm not so sure. We had a lot more days below 0 than usual and several days in the negative teens and a couple -25 days. My thought was to run the 5w30 from December to March and then I have some VR1 10w30 in my stash for next summer.

Is the T5 10w30 not considered a thicker oil?
 
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
No it will not be a problem for old flat tappet enines. Not unless the original flat tappet engine has been modified with a high lift cam and higher spring rates.

That is not true, it can still cause excessive wear even on standard well worn in cams, i know a guy who has a Triumph TR4 who was using Valvoline Vr1 20w50 in it for a long time, thought it wa sa bit expensive so swicthed to Castrol GTX 20w50, about a year later the engine all of the sudden starts to have a dead miss and is misfiring and running very rough.

He takes the engine out to look at it and he takes the cam and lifters out, sure enough 3 or 4 lobes were flat...

He had run the engine for over 10 years on Vr1 prior to that.


I was talking about American Iron. I haven't played with British cars since the 70's. I don't know what the TR4 cam and spring specs are. I know my Sprite and MGB called for 40 grade oil so they probably had higher rates than American Iron.
 
Originally Posted by Duffyjr
Originally Posted by Char Baby
What do you mean by lower Z & P levels?
Lower than 700-800 ppm?


Magnatec D1G2, 5w30 VOA from from 6/18/18, not as bad as the QSUD VOA which was dated almost a year ago that JustN89 posted.
Zink 695
Phos 672

Compared to: (just a couple I was looking at)

Valvoline Modern Engine full syn from website
Zink 850
Phos 800

Valvoline Daily Protection & Advanced full syn 5w30 from website
Zink 830
Phos 760

My engine is a flat tappet and just don't think I want to go any lower. Was just lookong around trying to pick a good 5w30 for winter for my truck, I think the Daily Protection will work.



Plain Mobil1 and HM Mobil1 have 900 ppm of Z...

I cannot find the article but most engine builders agreed that staying above 600ppm was all that was required for stock (American) flat tappets. Up to about 1000 to 1200 is safe for non-cat engines. Above 1400 ppm actually caused MORE wear in the engine.
 
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
No it will not be a problem for old flat tappet enines. Not unless the original flat tappet engine has been modified with a high lift cam and higher spring rates.

This is the answer.
 
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