Looks like Liqui-Moly has some new products

[boxcartommie22]

oh, i remember your oil burning issue..i agree with you then.i looked at the voa of mos2 and it has somewhere 4365 ppm...torco has their additive has> 9999ppm of moly..might be worth your while to look into that.. has antimony >9999ppm..

 

[demarpaint]

I'd try it when I'm 100% certain it doesn't find its way into the combustion chamber as reliable sources and the actual suppliers of the raw material have stated to me. Until then I eagerly sit on the sideline. Some goggling shows there are people who experienced plug fouling with the product so it is not something I'm pulling out of my hat. I weigh testimony heavily, as well as science, and in this case what the raw material suppliers have told me. Because Joe Blow says it was a good product is only a very small part of the equation, a very small part.

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
oh, i remember your oil burning issue..i agree with you then.i looked at the voa of mos2 and it has somewhere 4365 ppm...torco has their additive has> 9999ppm of moly..might be worth your while to look into that.. has antimony >9999ppm..


Which one of their products has that much moly?

I looked on their website and only found these two, but neither says they contain moly:

Quote:
MPZ Magnetic Friction Reducer is the same race proven, friction reducing technology in every Torco "Professional Series" motor oil. MPZ MFR is a key component to reducing frictional losses and when added to other brands of motor oil can increase horsepower and torque by as much as 1%-3%. This directly translates to improved fuel efficiency (as much as 6.3% during city driving and 8.5% during highway driving conditions), improved component durability, reduced operating temperatures, reduce oil degradation and peace of mind. Compatible with all synthetics, synthetic blends and petroleum based motor oils.


Quote:
Torco SR-1 Oil Treatment is formulated with Generation II MPZ. Generation II MPZ is a proprietary additive system engineered to provide anti-wear and friction fighting chemistry necessary to protect modern engines in current street performance cars and trucks equipped with catalytic converters (CAT). SR-1 Oil Treatment additive system incorporates an alternative to Phosphorus and Zinc in order to stay compliant with new car manufacturer recommendations.


I don't think I have any magnetic friction in my engine that I need reduced. $13 for a bottle of 9999ppm moly is not worth the price. For that price I can buy 3 cans of LM.

 

[Spyder7]

The first time I used LM mos2, it was a half bottle dosing to PP, which probably put me above 800 ppm but I didn't mind going a little over that (850 was my target). A member who used who used in the past, then discontinued, noted in the VOA discussion thread that it "lingered," in that subsequent UOAs he did still showed mos2 in the oil, but in diminishing amounts as he was no longer using it.

I skipped it this OCI because I think it can potentially build up if added, especially in higher doses (like 1/2 bottle to a 4 quart sump), to every OC. Going forward, starting with my next OC, I will add it back but only 1/4 bottle this time, for 2 or 3 consecutive OCIs, skip it on the next, then re-add same dose for 2 or 3 more. Rinse and repeat.

I like moly but I'm also of the school that a little of a good thing can do as well or better in some applications than a lot. Exact dosing is something that's going to vary from person to person though, this is just the method I've settled on; by skipping it after 2 or 3 consecutive OCIs, for 1 OCI, I also prevent any build up of it as particles go in and out of suspension with not all being drained during a typical OC.


-Spyder

Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
oh, i remember your oil burning issue..i agree with you then.i looked at the voa of mos2 and it has somewhere 4365 ppm...torco has their additive has> 9999ppm of moly..might be worth your while to look into that.. has antimony >9999ppm..


Which one of their products has that much moly?

I looked on their website and only found these two, but neither says they contain moly:

Quote:
MPZ Magnetic Friction Reducer is the same race proven, friction reducing technology in every Torco "Professional Series" motor oil. MPZ MFR is a key component to reducing frictional losses and when added to other brands of motor oil can increase horsepower and torque by as much as 1%-3%. This directly translates to improved fuel efficiency (as much as 6.3% during city driving and 8.5% during highway driving conditions), improved component durability, reduced operating temperatures, reduce oil degradation and peace of mind. Compatible with all synthetics, synthetic blends and petroleum based motor oils.


Quote:
Torco SR-1 Oil Treatment is formulated with Generation II MPZ. Generation II MPZ is a proprietary additive system engineered to provide anti-wear and friction fighting chemistry necessary to protect modern engines in current street performance cars and trucks equipped with catalytic converters (CAT). SR-1 Oil Treatment additive system incorporates an alternative to Phosphorus and Zinc in order to stay compliant with new car manufacturer recommendations.


I don't think I have any magnetic friction in my engine that I need reduced. $13 for a bottle of 9999ppm moly is not worth the price. For that price I can buy 3 cans of LM.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
oh, i remember your oil burning issue..i agree with you then.i looked at the voa of mos2 and it has somewhere 4365 ppm...torco has their additive has> 9999ppm of moly..might be worth your while to look into that.. has antimony >9999ppm..


I purchased the burner in May of this year with 96k km (about 60k miles). It was typical old lady driven and maintained: she worked close to home (as a bank manager) and also lived next to one of the major commercial areas; so being next door to WM, grocery store, her work, etc, the car saw mostly low speed short trips (with lots of AC in summer). She also had an after market remote starter installed before her first winter with it, so the car saw lots of winter hours idling long enough to be log cabin warm by the time she got in it.

She changed the oil as per the OEM recommendation (every 5k miles or 6 months), as well as other major fluids (ATF, coolant) through dealer service. Then last 2 years through mostly Meineke. I got it $1,500 under its market value, but it came with some kinks I worked our, or am working on:

- Nobody had checked the PVC system in 10 years; the factory valve was completely gummed up ($11 to replace myself with dealer bought part);

- Because of the above, there was considerable blow-by getting into the combustion chamber and building up in the oil;

- Her short trips and winter idling meant she should have stuck to the severe service schedule of 3k / 3 month OCIs instead of 5k / 6 months.

Due to all of the above, the engine was burning oil at that rate (quart / 1,200k) and sludged. I changed the air filter (it had been changed once, about 4 years ago, when I got it), cleaned the TB and TB butterfly valve using CRC intake cleaner, ran Regane, and then after changing the PCV valve, did my previous OCI w/ PP 5W30, 20 ounces of MMO in the oil, and half a bottle of mos2 as a cheap anti-friction/anti-wear additive. I got the PP on sale.

It cleaned up, but I'm still sticking to short 3-5k (and closer to 3k) OCIs even though I don't meet the criteria for severe service. I'll let it clean up for 1 or 2 more OCIs while I play around with different ways of maybe reducing oil consumption.

It was worth the 2k price I paid for it. Oil consumption is a known issue in this 8th gen Corolla but it has no impact on longevity - compression and engine life are unaffected. The transmission and engine will both long outlive the body, even with its oil thirst (engine & transmission good for another 5-10 years and at least another 300k miles; however body and underbody is unlikely to keep up the 25 years I'd need to put the additional miles on it, as I only do 20k/year.

-Spyder

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
The first time I used LM mos2, it was a half bottle dosing to PP, which probably put me above 800 ppm but I didn't mind going a little over that (850 was my target).



I don't think you got 800ppm. Maybe less than half that.

Here is how to figure what PPM of MOS2 is in your crankcase when adding LM during an oil change.

Things you will need to know:
A) The amount of MOS2 you plan to add (all 10oz or half?)
B) The amount of oil you will use, in ounces, for the oil change (4-5-6qts x 32)
C) the PPM of moly in the 10 oz can (4365ppm from the UOA?)


(4365ppm/1oz) x ("A"/"B") = ppm MOS2 in engine oil

Example for a half can, 5oz, of MOS2 mixed with 6 quarts, 192oz, of motor oil.

(4365/1oz) x (5oz/192oz) = 113.7ppm moly

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
The first time I used LM mos2, it was a half bottle dosing to PP, which probably put me above 800 ppm but I didn't mind going a little over that (850 was my target).



I don't think you got 800ppm. Maybe less than half that.

Here is how to figure what PPM of MOS2 is in your crankcase when adding LM during an oil change.

Things you will need to know:
A) The amount of MOS2 you plan to add (all 10oz or half?)
B) The amount of oil you will use, in ounces, for the oil change (4-5-6qts x 32)
C) the PPM of moly in the 10 oz can (4365ppm from the UOA?)


(4365ppm/1oz) x ("A"/"B") = ppm MOS2 in engine oil

Example for a half can, 5oz, of MOS2 mixed with 6 quarts, 192oz, of motor oil.

(4365/1oz) x (5oz/192oz) = 113.7ppm moly




My sump capacity is 3.9L, with filter.
LM mos2 bottle is 300 ml.

You are correct in that your figure is closer to what I wound up adding than the 800 ppm I was thinking of (although keep in mind, I added mos2 in August I believe, so my memory is suspect on where I arrived at the 800 ppm figure mentioned above).

With that sorted out (thank you) I need to adjust my dosing upward to achieve more moly than a 1/4 bottle is going to give me. I think what I'll do is use a full bottle in my upcoming winter OC, then the half bottle I have left for my Spring OC following it. Then I'll dose in alternating doses of 1 bottle followed by 1/2 half bottle on the subsequent OCI; rinse and repeat.

-Spyder

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
The first time I used LM mos2, it was a half bottle dosing to PP, which probably put me above 800 ppm but I didn't mind going a little over that (850 was my target).



I don't think you got 800ppm. Maybe less than half that.

Here is how to figure what PPM of MOS2 is in your crankcase when adding LM during an oil change.

Things you will need to know:
A) The amount of MOS2 you plan to add (all 10oz or half?)
B) The amount of oil you will use, in ounces, for the oil change (4-5-6qts x 32)
C) the PPM of moly in the 10 oz can (4365ppm from the UOA?)


(4365ppm/1oz) x ("A"/"B") = ppm MOS2 in engine oil

Example for a half can, 5oz, of MOS2 mixed with 6 quarts, 192oz, of motor oil.

(4365/1oz) x (5oz/192oz) = 113.7ppm moly




My sump capacity is 3.9L, with filter.
LM mos2 bottle is 300 ml.

You are correct in that your figure is closer to what I wound up adding than the 800 ppm I was thinking of (although keep in mind, I added mos2 in August I believe, so my memory is suspect on where I arrived at the 800 ppm figure mentioned above).

-Spyder



Metric is easy

(4365ppm/1L) x (0.3L/3.9L) = 335ppm

in reverse

(3.9L x 800ppm) x (1/4365ppm) = 0.715L or 715ml

 

[Loobed]

I forgot to say that the 3.9L includes the .715L of LM. You would use 3.2L of motor oil, than add 2-1/2 cans of LM to get ~3.9L

 

[JHZR2]

Not sure Id want much more than 400-500ppm, especially in a burner. Upon oxidation, those particles will be Moly oxide and sulfuric acid, unless Im missing something.

 

[Spyder7]

I may up the dosage when I dip into my PP 10W30, which has no moly and which I'd like to run a longer OCI on. Right now they are 3-5K OCIs on good (but cheap) dino. This current fill is getting changed at the wrong time of year, having changed it a bit too early and than putting miles on it faster than I thought I would. Its coming out in January and another dino will go in, but only for 5k max.

You nailed the dosing down, now its a question of how much mos2 is desirable. Last time, with the half bottle, I definitely fell short and should have used more. I'd have no qualms about putting 2 bottles of mos2 into PP where it has no moly of its own, but is a stout oil that I can get a decent OCI out of (and I have 14 unopened 10W30 summer quarts of it stashed).

There are also other LM products from that list you posted that I'm looking into as well, and one in particular that I will likely add with the mos2 (Hydro-Stabil) to the summer PP.

-Spyder

 

[Russell]

I am going to add 10 oz can of MOS2 with enough lubro moly 10w40 low friction (some mos2) blend to equal 6 quarts in my 95 BMW. Wonder what the PPm would be? car use Lubro Moly 10w40 in the last fill as well.

 

[demarpaint]

Be careful not to OD the engine on moly. A little is good, a lot isn't always better. I'd check with them first. JMO

 

[CourierDriver]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Be careful not to OD the engine on moly. A little is good, a lot isn't always better. I'd check with them first. JMO
Or just run 5w40 rotella t6, amen....IMHO

 

[Spyder7]

HDEO is really expensive here (WM only rolls back dino oil and the odd syn, while CT never puts HDEO on sale either). Typically HDEO is 2.5-3.5x the price of the rollback oil I buy and have stashed (this was all bought on good rollbacks).

I also prefer to stay within the 30 grade weight spec'd by the OEM, at this mileage, and not move up to a 40 grade.

LM mos2, at 400 ppm (a reasonable amount for my burner, as JHZR suggested) will still keep the oil and LM cost to at least half of what HDEO costs; and when you typically burn a quart every 1,200 miles, as I usually do, then it makes even more sense to spend some on additives you put in once during the OCI, while staying with inexpensive oil as you are topping up with it throughout the OCI, no matter what you set it at (and there again, particularly with dino, I prefer to stay within the OEM recommendation).

-Spyder

 

[mongo161]

The only oil additive that I've used is Tufoil. I use about 5 ounces of it with every oil change. I've been using it for years. I cut back a little when I use any Dino oil in my OCI that is fortified with lots of Moly like Formula Shell has in it's add pack.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: mongo161
The only oil additive that I've used is Tufoil. I use about 5 ounces of it with every oil change. I've been using it for years. I cut back a little when I use any Dino oil in my OCI that is fortified with lots of Moly like Formula Shell has in it's add pack.


By the numbers, Formula Shell leads the dino pack in moly (226 ppm):

http://www.pqiamerica.com/testresults3a.html

When I think of lots of moly, I think of Redline, though, which has about 800 ppm (according to VOAs).

Granted that in both oils, the moly compound is not the same as the one found in LM mos2, however.

Formula Shell is my favorite oil. Rollback prices are usually about half of regular prices, and Shell is never rolled back here so I don't buy it. Formula Shell is one of the very few dino oils that use a decent amount of moly, while many other brands have none.

-Spyder

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: Russell
I am going to add 10 oz can of MOS2 with enough lubro moly 10w40 low friction (some mos2) blend to equal 6 quarts in my 95 BMW. Wonder what the PPm would be? car use Lubro Moly 10w40 in the last fill as well.



If you added one 10oz can to six quarts of oil, you would have about 216ppm + the ppm that is in the regular oil.

Pour the LM in the engine first. Then pour some oil into the empty LM can, close the can, and shake. Pour the oil from the can into your engine again. Do this a couple times to get all the moly out of the can. Fill engine with the rest of the oil.

 

[Russell]

Originally Posted By: Loobed
Originally Posted By: Russell
I am going to add 10 oz can of MOS2 with enough lubro moly 10w40 low friction (some mos2) blend to equal 6 quarts in my 95 BMW. Wonder what the PPm would be? car use Lubro Moly 10w40 in the last fill as well.



If you added one 10oz can to six quarts of oil, you would have about 216ppm + the ppm that is in the regular oil.

Pour the LM in the engine first. Then pour some oil into the empty LM can, close the can, and shake. Pour the oil from the can into your engine again. Do this a couple times to get all the moly out of the can. Fill engine with the rest of the oil.


Thanks. Will change oil when temps get a bit higher. Right now it has not been higher than 20 degress for the past few days and I have no heated work space. So sad