Looking to replace some copper piping to PEX. Pros and Cons?

69GTX

69GTX

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My hot water line in the 1st floor bathroom has some very light weepage that drips down the pipe in to the basement. It's coming from inside the wall where the copper line goes into regular cast metal pipe/valve body/bushings. I opened up the wall to get a decent view. So that definitely needs to come out. It's tight in there with wood support beams attached to the pipes. Easiest and cheapest thing for me is to run some 1/2" PEX (100 psi 180 deg F) from the basement to under the bathroom sink - about a 6 ft run. Haven't done PEX before but it seems preferable to calling in a plumber who will likely charge $500-$1000 to do all 3 lines into the bathroom on that one wall (cold and hot water to sink, and cold line to toilet). Best to do all at once as all those lines are from 1960. The PEX is flexible enough to snake up into the wall and grab it. Will need fittings and new valves....shark bites, etc.

My questions include any code issues here? PEX offers 2 types of clips for compression - a ring style and a clamp style. Not sure which is "better." There are different tools for each. Will need to buy 3 tools regardless (PEX crimper with go-no go gauge, PEX ring remover, PEX cutter for around $100 total). There's another 60 ft of 1/2" cold and hot piping in the basement that will eventually need to be replaced too. At least if that accessible piping leaks I can temporarily patch it with a hose clamp....always works. Doesn't work very well in the walls that are inaccessible. With PEX I should be able to do my own 1/2" line repairs as needed....and avoid soldering copper pipe which I've never done either.

I had one plumber put in about 20 feet of hot/cold lines to my kitchen sink 5 yrs ago. They used some different type of compression fitting that supposedly cost $3000 for the hydraulic crimper. Charged me $750 for about 6 hrs of work. Not doing that again. A furnace guy just did a 12" hot water elbow directly on my furnace that cost $100....3 copper crimps. That's another option though I don't see how you can get access into a wall to use a large copper crimper. The PEX flexes and that crimp can be made outside the wall.

So anything I need to know about PEX that could surprise me in a "bad" way? How often do you make bad crimps? Do the fittings last for 20 years? Is the go-no go gauge pretty much accurate? Are the shark bite crimps from copper to PEX reliable?

Thanks for any inputs.

IMG_20190929_144552.jpg
 
I have a pex kit, it uses the compression rings. comes calibrated.

you might need a close quarters crimper too..

Mine is great for everything except the fittings right up against the wall enclosed(such as under a kitchen sink) as you have to open the handle to almost 180degrees.

My whole house is pex.. It has been great since I tightened up the crimps after hilljack and son remodelers did the house before I bought it.
had quite a few weeping.

pex kit I have off amazon.

I used it when installing a new well pressure tank with 1" pex.. worked like a dream. Literally 5min to do it.

The white pipe is the new 1" pex line.






MVIMG_20190713_164234.jpg
 
Ive installed plenty of PEX with stainless pinch clamps. I prefer them for a few reasons. The tool is much cheaper, you can get a kit off ebay for around $25 with cutters, definitely comes from china but mine has pinched hundreds of clamps. The tool is smaller and the head doesn't have to go around the whole fitting, just a side of it and don't have to swap heads to pinch different sizes. Also, the pinch clamps can be removed with simple hand tools instead of another tool to cut it.
 
I am going to plumb a mobile home in the near future, and I am going to go with the stainless pinch clamps. Going to buy the pre-set pinch clamps that keeps the clamp from sliding around on the pipe which is going to make it easier to get the tool on the clamp. I think the pinch type clamps will work better in tight spots. Link below on the pinch clamps I am going to buy.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B7T13LM/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_8?smid=A1UQW4GFX9H2UF&psc=1
 
Pex is good because it's much cheaper than copper. But for the amount of work you have, you could just stick with copper and shark bite fittings. Will be cheaper than the pex tools and they just plug right in.
 
Thanks for those inputs. Stainless pinch clamps are leading 2-1.

Wolf359, hadn't considered using shark bite fittings and just sticking with the copper. The only potential issue is trying to make a crimp inside the wall with those tight clearances. That 90 deg bend inside the wall is the hard one. And then run that into a new valve under the sink. Do they sell valves already made with stubs to accept shark bite fittings? There may have to be a soldering fitting from valve to copper pipe.
 
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I am a semi retired custom home builder in Southern California. I have mostly switched over to Pex type systems starting about 7-8 years ago. I first started when I would build in semi remote areas and copper would "disappear "from job sites. Over 100 homes since then never have had one leak with Pex. I still have customers who request copper...N/P Installed properly use with confidence. Most of my homes are in moderate to warm climates. Some get down to upper 20's--low 30's for lows
 
Go to know Tenderloin. Did you guys use the same crimpers as what they sell at the big box stores or a higher grade tool?
 
The pex stuff is a great alternative to copper, and cheaper too. But there haven't been much "long term" assessment to test it's longevity.

If you're going to use pex, make sure you get the tool made by a reputable manufacturer. Just because a tool does the job, doesn't mean it "does" the job. Remember you're relying on these clamps to hold the water pressure in your house, basically forever (or for however long you want it to).

When you crimp those rings in your house, finish up your wall, that's it. It's never to be seen again until it's time for another renovation or a repair. Just hope you don't have to break the wall again for a repair. Because at that point it's too late.

I do plumbing on the side and i had these clamps fail on me. You have to calibrate the tool otherwise you think the crimp ring is on tight, but it's not. My buddy did a job a couple of years back and one of the crimp rings failed about 3 weeks after he did the job there. The customer heard "water rushing" during the night but didn't know what it was. They first thought one of their toilets was slowly running. Come to find out the ring let go and water was gushing everywhere, behind the walls. Not good.
 
In doing some digging, one source discussed a flurry of PEX law suits about 10 yrs ago.....PEX pipes splitting for instance. I would hope those issues have been cleared up by now.
 
Pex is great. Sharkbite has fittings which would make it super easy and no tools needed.
If I do a big job, I will use the Uponor pex and fittings.
 
PEX is the plumbing world equivalent of vinyl siding. Do you honestly believe that a product that cost half as much and requires half the skill set to "install" vs copper is going to be a better product long term? Developers love it and plumbing repair companies love it because they can have their poop chucking monkey do it and charge what copper cost. Ask the plumber what they have in their own home. Ever seen a home "builder" with vinyl siding on their own house?
 
Originally Posted by 69GTX
Thanks for those inputs. Stainless pinch clamps are leading 2-1.

Wolf359, hadn't considered using shark bite fittings and just sticking with the copper. The only potential issue is trying to make a crimp inside the wall with those tight clearances. That 90 deg bend inside the wall is the hard one. And then run that into a new valve under the sink. Do they sell valves already made with stubs to accept shark bite fittings? There may have to be a soldering fitting from valve to copper pipe.


They have shark bite fittings in all different types of sizes. They even have them in valves, especially shut off valves to the sink. Makes it real simple, just plug it in and turn the water on. They also have them in 90 degree fittings. If you want simple, stick with copper.

Also copper has been in use for 100+ years. Can't say the same for pex. When plastic first came out it was fine, then the found it was leaching into the water but they've fixed that problem now and pex is code. Still it's like the old saying about going with the safe choice. Considering how you haven't used it before, I'd say copper would actually be simpler with shark bite fittings, no crimping, just press them on.
 
For a small job like that, forget the crimp rings and tools. Buy some Sharkbite fittings. Much easier for a small job than screwing with pex crimpers, CPVC glue, or soldering copper. They also make it super-easy to connect pex to your existing copper.
 
Originally Posted by zzyzzx
Is CPVC an option?
Personally, I don't like to mix types in the same house, but replacing copper with CPVC is sometimes acceptable to me.


CPVC is never acceptable in my book. It's brittle, it's brittle, and oh, it's brittle. My crawl doesn't even get that cold (I've been under it in a t-shirt in January and it's more than comfortable) and I had a hairline crack in my mortar that let a little outside air in about 8" from the CPVC line to my kitchen sink. Well, I think it was the winter of '14(?) that Indiana had some brutal, brutal cold. Negative degrees for several days. Well, the pipe froze solid and resisted all efforts to thaw it for about 8 hours. As it thawed, I realized it had split a nearly 8 foot section of the pipe, too late. Water proceeded to rush into the crawl. So I repaired it with new CPVC. Next winter, temps were in the 20s and it froze solid and split again. So I replaced it with PEX and no more freezing or splitting.

That doesn't come close to the horror I experienced when my wife had her friend over to help paint the room where the water heater was, and pulled against the CPVC pipe to move it just a hair to get the brush behind it. Well, CPVC cracked and blew apart, and began flooding my living space. Took almost 6 minutes to run out to the city shutoff and get the water stopped. Two things came from that expedition: more PEX throughout the house, and a shutoff valve inside and easily accessible.

No CPVC for me, thanks.
 
Great stuff everyone. Thanks.

Shark bites and copper pipe does seem to make the most sense....if I can get a copper line with 90 deg bend up through the wall where I can compress a fitting.
 
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They have soft copper too, bends. Sharkbite sells any fitting you could want and sharkbite tubing too. Like anything have to follow exactly the manufacturers instructions. I care so I do it myself and do the extra details which sometimes is the hard part. The sharkbite types are approved for in wall. Seems scary but they meet the standard they say.
 
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