Looking for new car is brutal theses days.....

we got lucky then; no purchase of the vehicle in the foreseeable future; same for the house, no need for upgrades in near future

it seem like living wage is by default these days, unofficially $15 is already here; US becomes more of Europe, I think its coming...
 
Everything has been made brutal these days.

That sums it up nicely. I'm just glad that we got done with the addition on our house before the building materials skyrocketed. That's another area that has gotten out of control.
 
An SUV may very well be the last vehicle she ever buys... they are death traps
Whenever I see a crash involving a SUV and a sedan [happens constantly in Miami] the sedan is always the looser. Most are dead on the spot in the sedan and have to be taken to the Firehouse for removal. Some actually are decapitated. Most people I know buy their kids used PPV Explorer Utility or PPV Tahoe to keep them safe when they send them off to college.

But to each their own.
 
You might want to look at cars that are not in the "mainstream media", such as Mercedes or even Land Rover. Yes, they may cost a bit more than you're willing to spend, but you'll never know until you look. Certainly beats paying a dealer premium.
I have never been stiffed by a Mercedes dealer on certified used, which ultimately have the full factory warranty. When you see a lot full of used cars, you might want to check it out.
Even Mercedes used car prices are a bit higher but maybe not as high as some more mainstream models. I've been looking for a used E class and the prices haven't really dropped that much compared to last year. Not in a big rush as I like to keep an eye out for loaded models which don't really show up that often. And you also have to be careful about CPO used cars, many threads in the Mercedes forums where the dealer just checked off the boxes but didn't actually do the inspection and the buyer had to go fight to get things done afterwards. MB comes with a 4 year/50k factory warranty which is bumper to bumper so if you get a 3 year lease return, you'd still have a year left on the factory warranty but the CPO warranty is not the same as the full factory warranty, doesn't cover as much, main item would be cosmetics like faded wood trim, covered under factory warranty, not under CPO or extended warranty. You can do up to 3 years unlimited miles on a CPO warranty so you could pick up a used one and have up to 4-5 years of warranty coverage depending on how much of the original factory warranty is left, CPO just picks up whenever the factory warranty expires.
 
A few months back, I decided to give my beloved 2016 Rouge to my son, as both his cars are not the most reliable (well, the 01 Camry is, but...) and he and his wife have a baby now and are moving 3 hours away. I took his 01 VW Beetle as trade for my daughter.

I THOUGHT I would just go out and find a nice $4k commuter car/beater for myself, as I prefer to drive my Jeep, just not to work every day.

Long story short, I ended up buying a 1 owner, 226k mile 09 Camry because it was impeccably maintained by our local Toyota dealer, the miles are almost all highway miles, and it has very minor rust for an IA car. The cars on the lots were absolute trash, and private cars are not much better for condition. A $3000 car is now a $5000 car, and anything on the lot has about 120,000 miles and is covered in rips, scratches, and scuffs, for $11,000.

A nice used car is very hard to find these days.
 
We have been looking for my G.F. a new car for or used with say 30k and under miles for about 6 weeks....first stop was Toyota and RAV4 were they would only come down about 500 bucks off sticker...then made up some fake charges that were over 1k.....I got up an walked.
Toyota builds good cars but the dealer network sucks.
She likes the Buick Enclave so we have started looking at used ones....same problem.....the car is listed so high we should just buy new to get full factory warranty.
I read a few months ago the new price is sticker price and dealers are getting over sticker for "hot" models like Kia's new SUV is going for 5k over sticker....
We were talking these morn about it....at our age it will be the last car she buys...I drive about 6-7k a year and she drives about 5k a year.
I told her you cant take it with you so get what you want...since it will be last SUV you will buy.....so I hope tomorrow we can get her white Buick Enclave and enjoy it....and not get so depressed on the price.
Yeah, it can be tough. But if you're willing to invest some time, try the following. I've forgotten what forum I found it on a couple years back, but it's somewhat entertaining (at the least) and can save you thousands. It's a little long but if you're serious it's worth the time.

Hope it helps.




Before we carry on, a few things I wanted to mention:

1. These tips will only apply to NEW vehicles - Read on, you will see why.

2. Know what you want - Dealers take advantage of people that don't know what they want. Most hate, absolutely hate people that walk into their dealership knowing what they want. I have had dealers turn me down when I approach them with what I want.

3. Do not settle for less, do not settle for more. What? don't settle for more? - WHY? - You will understand once you read thru the following process.

4. 95% of this process will be done online, so being internet savvy is a PLUS.

5. Think about how far are you willing to travel - Out of state? Across the country? Or to the opposite side of your state?

Now that I have this introductory nonsense out of the way, let's carry on.

First order of business:

Make sure you know what you want. Head out to the dealer, look at the different packages, colors, etc. Once you know what you want, do NOT change your mind. Take your time. It is here where it all begins and if you change your mind, you will have to start over. Don't worry about the price, you probably won't be buying from there anyway.

After you have decided what truck package/color you want, take a peek at the sticker. Yes, the nasty ass sticker.

Make a note of the following:

1. Stock number: Usually a four digit number - See where it says "year/model" on the sticker? - Number "7553C" is the stock number for this truck. That's the number that the dealers use to search for trucks with similar configurations at other dealers - If VIN is not available.

2. VIN number

3. Take a picture of the sticker, make sure all the information is well focused and readable.

Go home - :bikewhoops:

Once you are at the comfort of your home - Create a new email. Do NOT use your personal email. Do NOT use your work email - I will explain why.

Once that email is set up, search for the Truck you wanted on the dealer's website - search it using the VIN or the stock number. Take screen shots, download pictures, save the link.

Remember the five tips mentioned at the end of the last post? - Numero 5 - How far are you willing to travel for the right deal? When I was shopping for my trucks, I was willing to travel ANYWHERE within Texas. If you are from Texas, you **** well know how large Texas is. Yes, I was willing to travel from Houston to El Paso if the price was right.

You are now at the point where you need to know where and how far - In my case, I picked anywhere in Texas - This will be your search area.

Fire up google maps: You will now need to locate EVERY dealer within your search area.

Zoom over metropolitan areas - in my case I did San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Victoria, Abilene, Lubbock, Amarillo, Corpus Christi

Take a note of all the dealers in this area. All of them. Here comes the fun part.

Make a list of alllll the dealers within your search area. All of them. Every. Single. One. of. Them. - I had 150 dealers on my list when I first started - USE EXCEL!!

Starting with the first dealer - visit his website - go to the internet sales section and look for anything that will lead you to contact email for the online sales.

It can be under "contact us" or in some cases you will have to pick a random Tacoma and select something like "Get today's price" or "I am interested in this truck"

The point is to reach out to the dealer and getting your email in HIS inbox. Whether if its thru an ad that advertises Camrys or an ad for hookers and blow. Get your email to them.

In the body of the email - Let them have it - Give them the VIN, Link, Stock number and let them know exactly what you are looking for:

"Hello, my name is Ramon.

I am looking to purchase a brand new 2015 Toyota Tacoma - I am looking for stock number 5885C in the Silver Sky Metallic Color. This is a 4x4 truck with the offroad package.

Here is a link of the truck I am looking for: -copy paste link of the truck you looked at from the first dealer-.

I am looking for nothing more, nothing less. I want a truck just like this."

I did this 150 times. Yes. I sent that same email to 150 dealers across the Lone Star State.

Notes:

1. Keep a template of the body of the email - It's easier to copy/paste the email every time you send it vs typing it over and over again.

2. If you feel nudes will help you get the deal, this is the time to submit them.

3. Keep it all organized - things are about to get hairy rreeeeeaaalllly fast - In your excel sheet - organize dealer name, location, email information, special notes, etc.

4. Do NOT include your phone number. Do NOT - unless you want it ringing off the hook - Make up a phone number or give them a dummy phone number if it wont let you submit.

Once you are done - go get some coffee, grab a beer. Whatever.

After a few hours - check your email - It will be inundated with replies. - This is the reason you need to create a new email JUST for this. Don't forget, by sending them an email, you are also signing up for their junk mail. You don't want to spend the rest of your life unsubscribing from their junk mail, just because you didn't want to create a "dummy" email.

It will contain many variations of the following 5 types of email:

A. Automated Response: "Hello, thank you for submitting your inquiry, a sales representative will contact you shortly"

B. Automated Response: "Based on the information you submitted, we have the Camry you are looking for! For just $495, this Camry can be yours!"

C. Real Person: "Thank you for reaching out, when can I call you??, Please provide your phone number"

D. Real Person: "Yes, I can offer you that truck for $28k"

E. Real Person: "Yes, I can offer you that truck with a bull bar, steps, and a spacer lift"

Let's start shifting thru the emails:

A - Delete these, hopefully the dealer will reach out to you soon. Basic automated response.

B - A Camry? ***? - YES. Believe it or not, after inquiring about a TACOMA - they offer me a CAMRY. ***!? It WILL happen. How the hell do they offer you a CAMRY? I do not know. Reply to the dealer with your original inquiry - Copy paste your request -

C. - Finally, a human being - and he wants to talk to you on the phone. No. Reply to them - "thank you for responding to my email, I do not want to talk on the phone yet, lets arrange this via email - Can you get me the truck I want?"

D. - Ahhh now we're talking - Respond: "Are you sure it is exactly what I asked for?" - Copy and paste your request again - Don't want the dealer offering you Caca de toro when you want Caca de Chicken.

E. - Meh, - Respond: "No sir, I want this exact truck. If you want to sell me that truck, take off the bull bars, steps and spacer left. I will only accept the options shown on the link I provided"

Stand your ground.

Don't settle for less, don't settle for more. Dealers will want to sell you a different package or sell you a TSS model when you want a sport. Or offer you a Camry because they have a blow-out sale.

Stand your ground.

Got it?

Okay, good.

Once you start exchanging and responding to emails, you will notice three types of dealers:

1. the dealer that wants to work with you

2. the dealer that wants to upsell another vehicle

3. the dealer that doesn't care

After these dealers notice that you know what you want and you will not budge, they will start giving you numbers. Remember that excel sheet where you were organizing all your dealer information in a nice chart? Here is where it comes handy - place all your offers in those charts.

This process will take about 3 - 4 days - enough time for all the dealers to reply, get thru all the BS automated responses, etc.

Once you feel satisfied with the amount of offers you have, separate your entire list into smaller groups.

From my original 150 dealers I emailed, my list of legit dealers that had given me an offer boiled down to 50 dealers.

I split the list into groups of 25 - two groups.

Remember High School football? Playoffs are done in brackets - teams competing with each other on opposite ends of the brackets until only two teams are left for the state championship game.

In my case, I got the lowest price out of the first group, and emailed all the dealers within that group - "Thank you for making you offer, but Toyota from xxxx has offered $28,000 for the truck I want"

I repeated the process for each dealer in the second group, using the low price found in that specific group.

You will get four type of responses:

1. I will offer $27,500 - Yes!

2. Sorry, I cant do that - Bye Felicia

3. You are going to drive all the way over there for that price? - Yes sir, distance is not an issue.

4. No response - Good, weeds out the dealer that doesn't care.

Once I received everyone's response - My list of 50 dealers boiled down to 30 dealers that had replied with a lower offer.

Pick the lowest offer out of the 30 dealers.

Repeat the process again:

"Thank you for making you offer, but Toyota from xxxx has offered $26,000 for the truck I want"

You will get the same type of responses as shown above.

Repeat the iteration, over and over again. Let the dealers weed themselves out. You will get to the point where there will only be two or three dealers trying to get your business. These guys deserve a cookie. These guys are no BS dealers. Respect them. Really. If they've been responding to this point, they want your business.

That's how you get the lowest possible price!

The dealers will pretty much be on a bidding match to earn your business to sell you the truck you want.

Once you are down to the last two or three responsive dealers do a few more iterations - until you get the lowest price.

How do you know its the lowest price?

You will get the following responses:

1. That's below invoice.
2. I am losing money.
3. Is that with a trade in?
4. There is no way you are getting that price, send me the vin again.
5. Send me another round of nudes please.

The rest is self explanatory.

Here are a few final notes and tips.

1. Sometimes the dealer will offer the truck for less than what they paid for, in hopes that you will buy their extended warranty, paint protection program, or carpet protection stuff. Careful, don't fall in this trap.

2. Print out the email - you don't want to show up at the dealer and have them be like '"oh that wasn't us" - Happened to me.

3. Once you selected a dealer - Tell them to send you pictures of the truck. Proof that they have it.

4. When I bought my 2013 Tacoma, they tinted the windows AFTER I negotiated the price. I never asked for tinted windows. Remember when I said - don't settle for more?

Dealer - Thank you for coming in Mr. Ortiz, your truck is ready and here is your paperwork. We went ahead and tinted the windows, hope you like it.

Me - I didn't ask for tinted windows.

Dealer - I apologize, my tinting team didn't get the memo - its only $295 more. We can work it into the financing
:)


Me - Rip it off.

Dealer - Sorry, we cant..

Me - Rip it off, I wanted no tint.

Dealer - Were in Texas, tint is a necessity Mr. Ortiz.

Me - I can install my own tint. Rip it off, or ill take my business elsewhere.

Dealer - You can have the tint for free.
 
It really depends on the situation. My 2019 Toyota Tundra was worth so much, I couldn't pass up trading it in on something more economical until I retire. I bought it new in 2019 for $38,800. It had 42,000 miles on it. Carvana was offering me $42,500 for it and I only owed $22,468. That is insane! I printed it off and took it to my local Honda dealer and they matched it! I bought a 2021 Honda Civic fully loaded for an awesome price. Made out like a bandit. Super happy with the car as well.

When I retire in 5 years and no longer have my long 540 mile hwy drive each week, I will go back to a truck.
 
Whenever I see a crash involving a SUV and a sedan [happens constantly in Miami] the sedan is always the looser. Most are dead on the spot in the sedan and have to be taken to the Firehouse for removal. Some actually are decapitated.

But to each their own.

Unless said SUV hits something like a Volt, then usually the Volt has a destroyed front end but the occupants walk and the SUV flips and has dead occupants

Similar happens everyday when 2 suvs collide, lots of roll overs

Every time that happens it gets posted with photos the volt discussion groups and appears to have happened many times over the years.
 
Yeah, it can be tough. But if you're willing to invest some time, try the following. I've forgotten what forum I found it on a couple years back, but it's somewhat entertaining (at the least) and can save you thousands. It's a little long but if you're serious it's worth the time.

Hope it helps.




Before we carry on, a few things I wanted to mention:

1. These tips will only apply to NEW vehicles - Read on, you will see why.

2. Know what you want - Dealers take advantage of people that don't know what they want. Most hate, absolutely hate people that walk into their dealership knowing what they want. I have had dealers turn me down when I approach them with what I want.

3. Do not settle for less, do not settle for more. What? don't settle for more? - WHY? - You will understand once you read thru the following process.

4. 95% of this process will be done online, so being internet savvy is a PLUS.

5. Think about how far are you willing to travel - Out of state? Across the country? Or to the opposite side of your state?

Now that I have this introductory nonsense out of the way, let's carry on.

First order of business:

Make sure you know what you want. Head out to the dealer, look at the different packages, colors, etc. Once you know what you want, do NOT change your mind. Take your time. It is here where it all begins and if you change your mind, you will have to start over. Don't worry about the price, you probably won't be buying from there anyway.

After you have decided what truck package/color you want, take a peek at the sticker. Yes, the nasty ass sticker.

Make a note of the following:

1. Stock number: Usually a four digit number - See where it says "year/model" on the sticker? - Number "7553C" is the stock number for this truck. That's the number that the dealers use to search for trucks with similar configurations at other dealers - If VIN is not available.

2. VIN number

3. Take a picture of the sticker, make sure all the information is well focused and readable.

Go home - :bikewhoops:

Once you are at the comfort of your home - Create a new email. Do NOT use your personal email. Do NOT use your work email - I will explain why.

Once that email is set up, search for the Truck you wanted on the dealer's website - search it using the VIN or the stock number. Take screen shots, download pictures, save the link.

Remember the five tips mentioned at the end of the last post? - Numero 5 - How far are you willing to travel for the right deal? When I was shopping for my trucks, I was willing to travel ANYWHERE within Texas. If you are from Texas, you **** well know how large Texas is. Yes, I was willing to travel from Houston to El Paso if the price was right.

You are now at the point where you need to know where and how far - In my case, I picked anywhere in Texas - This will be your search area.

Fire up google maps: You will now need to locate EVERY dealer within your search area.

Zoom over metropolitan areas - in my case I did San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Victoria, Abilene, Lubbock, Amarillo, Corpus Christi

Take a note of all the dealers in this area. All of them. Here comes the fun part.

Make a list of alllll the dealers within your search area. All of them. Every. Single. One. of. Them. - I had 150 dealers on my list when I first started - USE EXCEL!!

Starting with the first dealer - visit his website - go to the internet sales section and look for anything that will lead you to contact email for the online sales.

It can be under "contact us" or in some cases you will have to pick a random Tacoma and select something like "Get today's price" or "I am interested in this truck"

The point is to reach out to the dealer and getting your email in HIS inbox. Whether if its thru an ad that advertises Camrys or an ad for hookers and blow. Get your email to them.

In the body of the email - Let them have it - Give them the VIN, Link, Stock number and let them know exactly what you are looking for:

"Hello, my name is Ramon.

I am looking to purchase a brand new 2015 Toyota Tacoma - I am looking for stock number 5885C in the Silver Sky Metallic Color. This is a 4x4 truck with the offroad package.

Here is a link of the truck I am looking for: -copy paste link of the truck you looked at from the first dealer-.

I am looking for nothing more, nothing less. I want a truck just like this."

I did this 150 times. Yes. I sent that same email to 150 dealers across the Lone Star State.

Notes:

1. Keep a template of the body of the email - It's easier to copy/paste the email every time you send it vs typing it over and over again.

2. If you feel nudes will help you get the deal, this is the time to submit them.

3. Keep it all organized - things are about to get hairy rreeeeeaaalllly fast - In your excel sheet - organize dealer name, location, email information, special notes, etc.

4. Do NOT include your phone number. Do NOT - unless you want it ringing off the hook - Make up a phone number or give them a dummy phone number if it wont let you submit.

Once you are done - go get some coffee, grab a beer. Whatever.

After a few hours - check your email - It will be inundated with replies. - This is the reason you need to create a new email JUST for this. Don't forget, by sending them an email, you are also signing up for their junk mail. You don't want to spend the rest of your life unsubscribing from their junk mail, just because you didn't want to create a "dummy" email.

It will contain many variations of the following 5 types of email:

A. Automated Response: "Hello, thank you for submitting your inquiry, a sales representative will contact you shortly"

B. Automated Response: "Based on the information you submitted, we have the Camry you are looking for! For just $495, this Camry can be yours!"

C. Real Person: "Thank you for reaching out, when can I call you??, Please provide your phone number"

D. Real Person: "Yes, I can offer you that truck for $28k"

E. Real Person: "Yes, I can offer you that truck with a bull bar, steps, and a spacer lift"

Let's start shifting thru the emails:

A - Delete these, hopefully the dealer will reach out to you soon. Basic automated response.

B - A Camry? ***? - YES. Believe it or not, after inquiring about a TACOMA - they offer me a CAMRY. ***!? It WILL happen. How the hell do they offer you a CAMRY? I do not know. Reply to the dealer with your original inquiry - Copy paste your request -

C. - Finally, a human being - and he wants to talk to you on the phone. No. Reply to them - "thank you for responding to my email, I do not want to talk on the phone yet, lets arrange this via email - Can you get me the truck I want?"

D. - Ahhh now we're talking - Respond: "Are you sure it is exactly what I asked for?" - Copy and paste your request again - Don't want the dealer offering you Caca de toro when you want Caca de Chicken.

E. - Meh, - Respond: "No sir, I want this exact truck. If you want to sell me that truck, take off the bull bars, steps and spacer left. I will only accept the options shown on the link I provided"

Stand your ground.

Don't settle for less, don't settle for more. Dealers will want to sell you a different package or sell you a TSS model when you want a sport. Or offer you a Camry because they have a blow-out sale.

Stand your ground.

Got it?

Okay, good.

Once you start exchanging and responding to emails, you will notice three types of dealers:

1. the dealer that wants to work with you

2. the dealer that wants to upsell another vehicle

3. the dealer that doesn't care

After these dealers notice that you know what you want and you will not budge, they will start giving you numbers. Remember that excel sheet where you were organizing all your dealer information in a nice chart? Here is where it comes handy - place all your offers in those charts.

This process will take about 3 - 4 days - enough time for all the dealers to reply, get thru all the BS automated responses, etc.

Once you feel satisfied with the amount of offers you have, separate your entire list into smaller groups.

From my original 150 dealers I emailed, my list of legit dealers that had given me an offer boiled down to 50 dealers.

I split the list into groups of 25 - two groups.

Remember High School football? Playoffs are done in brackets - teams competing with each other on opposite ends of the brackets until only two teams are left for the state championship game.
All if this well and good, but it leaves out the biggest wild card in any car deal, what will they give in trade for you old vehicle. It doesn't matter that they give you the lowest price on the new vehicle if they low ball you on your trade in. And you can't get a firm offer on your trade in until they have a chance to look at it in person. Even if they make you an initial offer on the trade by email they will reserve the right to change it after they examine your trade in.
 
With prices high and low production out put why are we shopping for stuff at the worst time? Yes sometimes broken stuff must be fixed but why now at the worst time.
 
Unless said SUV hits something like a Volt, then usually the Volt has a destroyed front end but the occupants walk and the SUV flips and has dead occupants

Similar happens everyday when 2 suvs collide, lots of roll overs

Every time that happens it gets posted with photos the volt discussion groups and appears to have happened many times over the years.
The IIHS seems to paint a vastly different picture. Car occupants were 55% of deaths in 2019, pick up trucks were 19%, and SUV’s were 24%. For driver deaths, it’s 55% for cars, 21% pick ups, and 23% for SUV’s. You’re safer in a truck or SUV.

For rollovers, cars in a single vehicle crash had 1,473 occupant deaths, pick ups were 1,040, and SUV’s were 1,117.

 
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My parents just bought a 2021 CR-V on Sunday and I was worried for them for all the reasons being mentioned here. Sometimes I forget how experienced my Dad is with all this stuff after a lifetime of ups/downs and car, home and business deals. They made out great under the current conditions. Two years ago it would have been a ho-hum deal, now it’s good. $2,700 under the asking price and got what they thought was good money for their Honda Accord trade in. Much easier for my Dad to get into the CRV versus the Accord, so there’s that.
 
We have been looking for my G.F. a new car for or used with say 30k and under miles for about 6 weeks....first stop was Toyota and RAV4 were they would only come down about 500 bucks off sticker...then made up some fake charges that were over 1k.....I got up an walked.
Toyota builds good cars but the dealer network sucks.
She likes the Buick Enclave so we have started looking at used ones....same problem.....the car is listed so high we should just buy new to get full factory warranty.
I read a few months ago the new price is sticker price and dealers are getting over sticker for "hot" models like Kia's new SUV is going for 5k over sticker....
We were talking these morn about it....at our age it will be the last car she buys...I drive about 6-7k a year and she drives about 5k a year.
I told her you cant take it with you so get what you want...since it will be last SUV you will buy.....so I hope tomorrow we can get her white Buick Enclave and enjoy it....and not get so depressed on the price.
We just bought a 2021 Subaru Outback for 26K new 2 weeks ago. 2 grand off no strings. everyone is buying compact Crosstrecks
or LARGE SUV.
Do I recommend any of these?
NO.
Subaru have cheapened their cars to add tech and maintain affordability.
They are not the Jewels that my wife's old 2017 was or that my 2011 outback was.
I wouldnt buy a car (or a house) right now. Unless you have a high value trade.
Then the numbers will even out.
 
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