Looking at used cars...

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Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Camu Mahubah
Why are you guys pushing an engine that's know for intake manifold gasket leaks? (3.8) Nothing wrong with the Fusion! I would much rather have a Fusion over a Forenza! I like GM cars if they come with Ecotec but I wouldn't be recommending GM V6 engines until it has been proven that the intake manifould gasket issues have been fixed!


Also, why are they pushing a gas guzzler motor on a new family? I would stay clear from any and all GM products, especially the gas guzzling Impalas and that ilk...they have reliability issues too. I would go with a Matrix, or Corolla, or Civic...a young family needs the room, the reliability, and higher MPG that only a Japanese car can provide...


What I can't figure out how you can say "A young family needs it space" after recommending the matrix and corolla which as classified as a compact. While the car that you lambasted is a mid sized sedan. I am pretty sure here a mid sized sedan will have more room than a compact.

To be comparable in size you have to look at cars such as the camry or the accord. For 2007 the camry received a highway mpg of 34 with a 2.4 and 31 with the 3.5. The accord for 2007 received a 34 with the 2.4 and 29 to 30 for the 3.0. What is interesting here is according to you these cars are gas guzzlers and at the same time have great mileage that "only a Japanese car can provide". If you actually spent the time to 1 get cars that are in the same class and 2 looked up your mileage you would find that the impala with the 3.5 gets 31 , the 3.9 v6 gets 29, and the 5.3 v8 gets 28.

Reliability probably does go to camry and accord a bit, but is also negated a bit by the fact that you must buy a 2 to 3 year older which also has 24 to 36k more miles on it.

Sorry for the rant like post here. Post like this just get to me.
 
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Obviously some people have not been to Saturn's website lately. The new Saturns are very nice. I drive an older Saturn and they are not for prima donnas. They are very reliable but crude on the interior. If you want a simple car they are excellent though. I get 40mpg with my SL1.
http://www.saturn.com/saturn/SaturnIndex.jsp

Here are pics of my Saturn. 94k miles and not a single dent (dent resistant sides).
grin2.gif


http://s141247488.onlinehome.us/saturn1.JPG
http://s141247488.onlinehome.us/saturn2.JPG
http://s141247488.onlinehome.us/saturn3.JPG
http://s141247488.onlinehome.us/saturn4.JPG
http://s141247488.onlinehome.us/saturn5.JPG
http://s141247488.onlinehome.us/saturn6.JPG
 
If you can wait till October, the program cars come out, which are factory leased cars. Iam sure Ford Fusions would be plentiful and they are ussually well equipped. So far my last two cars have been program cars, a 2000 Olds Intrigue and a 2002 Lincoln Continental, both have been extremely well cars. You save a bundle. Check with your Ford dealer, they may still have some avaiable since there is such a slump in sales.
 
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Camu Mahubah
Why are you guys pushing an engine that's know for intake manifold gasket leaks? (3.8) Nothing wrong with the Fusion! I would much rather have a Fusion over a Forenza! I like GM cars if they come with Ecotec but I wouldn't be recommending GM V6 engines until it has been proven that the intake manifould gasket issues have been fixed!


Also, why are they pusing a gas guzzler motor on a new family? I would stay clear from any and all GM products, especially the gas guzzling Impalas and that ilk...they have reliability issues too. I would go with a Matrix, or Corolla, or Civic...a young family needs the room, the reliability, and migher MPG that only a Japanese car can provide...


I agree completely. The fuel economy of Toyota and Honda vehicles is much better over the course of the vehicle's lifespan, they have more logically designed controls on the dashboard (for example, the off setting for the heater/AC is on the fan speed control instead of the control for the direction of the airflow), they have a much better history of crash test ratings, etcetera.
 
Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
(for example, the off setting for the heater/AC is on the fan speed control instead of the control for the direction of the airflow)

That one gets me every time, and still has no logic to it. However, I've swapped the climate control unit in my car with one from Pontiac's equivalent (for the red backlight that matches the rest of my interior), and the "off" position actually is on the speed control.
 
I always heard that the old slider control for the airflow was designed that way so that every time you turned it on you had to move it through the AC-on setting, which would get the AC to come on momentarily, thus helping to lubricate the AC compressor even during the winter months when otherwise it would go un-used for months and deteriorate.

If true, it seems like a pretty clever design.
 
Originally Posted By: wapacz
What I can't figure out how you can say "A young family needs it space" after recommending the matrix and corolla which as classified as a compact.

Original poster wanted a bigger trunk.
Forenza trunk volume (from Edmunds) is 12.4 cu.ft.
Fusion 15.8
Pontiac Vibe (first gen) 19.3
Toyota Matrix (first gen) 21.8.
I think we have a winner! I would still get the Vibe: Cheaper, better colors, and better looking. And cheaper.

And before anyone says "but that's measured up to the headliner," I'm fairly sure those cargo volumes are measured up to the bottom edge of the windows.
 
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Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I know one guy who traded in his '03 Accord EX I4 Automatic after 238,000 miles. The only repair was a $100 wiper motor after 220k. Original transmission, yes the 5-speed automatic, serviced only four times.


how much did he get for trade in value?

I'll ask him.
 
Originally Posted By: Tosh
Originally Posted By: wapacz
What I can't figure out how you can say "A young family needs it space" after recommending the matrix and corolla which as classified as a compact.

Original poster wanted a bigger trunk.
Forenza trunk volume (from Edmunds) is 12.4 cu.ft.
Fusion 15.8
Pontiac Vibe (first gen) 19.3
Toyota Matrix (first gen) 21.8.
I think we have a winner! I would still get the Vibe: Cheaper, better colors, and better looking. And cheaper.

And before anyone says "but that's measured up to the headliner," I'm fairly sure those cargo volumes are measured up to the bottom edge of the windows.


/me points that all those cars are compacts. The car that starts the post is a mid sized sedan.
 
I saw the new Astra 3-door at the Auto Show last week and was impressed: beat the new Volvo C30 hands down, IMHO. 1st Saturn product I would ever consider.

I'd still buy a 5-door 2008 Impreza and "keep the change"...

Cheers!
 
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I know one guy who traded in his '03 Accord EX I4 Automatic after 238,000 miles. The only repair was a $100 wiper motor after 220k. Original transmission, yes the 5-speed automatic, serviced only four times.


how much did he get for trade in value?

$6000.
 
Originally Posted By: wapacz

Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Camu Mahubah
Why are you guys pushing an engine that's know for intake manifold gasket leaks? (3.8) Nothing wrong with the Fusion! I would much rather have a Fusion over a Forenza! I like GM cars if they come with Ecotec but I wouldn't be recommending GM V6 engines until it has been proven that the intake manifould gasket issues have been fixed!


Also, why are they pushing a gas guzzler motor on a new family? I would stay clear from any and all GM products, especially the gas guzzling Impalas and that ilk...they have reliability issues too. I would go with a Matrix, or Corolla, or Civic...a young family needs the room, the reliability, and higher MPG that only a Japanese car can provide...


What I can't figure out how you can say "A young family needs it space" after recommending the matrix and corolla which as classified as a compact. While the car that you lambasted is a mid sized sedan. I am pretty sure here a mid sized sedan will have more room than a compact.

To be comparable in size you have to look at cars such as the camry or the accord. For 2007 the camry received a highway mpg of 34 with a 2.4 and 31 with the 3.5. The accord for 2007 received a 34 with the 2.4 and 29 to 30 for the 3.0. What is interesting here is according to you these cars are gas guzzlers and at the same time have great mileage that "only a Japanese car can provide". If you actually spent the time to 1 get cars that are in the same class and 2 looked up your mileage you would find that the impala with the 3.5 gets 31 , the 3.9 v6 gets 29, and the 5.3 v8 gets 28.

Reliability probably does go to camry and accord a bit, but is also negated a bit by the fact that you must buy a 2 to 3 year older which also has 24 to 36k more miles on it.

Sorry for the rant like post here. Post like this just get to me.


But a new family starting out does not need a Camry, Accord or the bigger American models. Those cars have grown substantially over the years.

Had you done the type of research you accuse me of not doing? Because if you had, then you would find that the Corolla is a "big" car, and so is the Matrix in regard to the type of room a young family needs. They are more then big enough.

Also, it would not be possible to get both high MPG and high reliability in an American model...Japaneses is the best way to go.
 
Originally Posted By: lovcom

Also, it would not be possible to get both high MPG and high reliability in an American model

What a rediculous statement.
 
Originally Posted By: ShiningArcanine
they have a much better history of crash test ratings


History is all you have right now because currently the Camry (all but the Solara convertible), Corolla, Echo and Yaris all get a 0% vehicle safety discount from State Farm. On the Honda side Accord 2door gets 0%, Accord 4-door gets 10%, and the Civic, Insight, and fit all get 0% as well. All of the Scion models get 0% as well.

http://www.statefarm.com/insurance/auto_insurance/veh_rating/veh_rating.asp
 
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: lovcom

Also, it would not be possible to get both high MPG and high reliability in an American model


What a rediculous statement.


I agree, but koolaid drinkers will be koolaid drinkers...

I guess my Saturn (GM vehicle) which gets 42mpg on the highway at 3k rpm along with the fact I have never had a mechanical repair aside from maintenance items on my Saturn in 94k miles doesn't qualify.
smirk2.gif
 
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I don't understand something though. They give the 4dr gas Accord a 10% discount but the Accord hybrid receives a 20% discount. Don't have the same safety features? Aren't the engines the only difference they have? Same thing for the Highlander. The regular gets 20% and the hybrid gets 30%. Is a hybrid safer than a gas version of the same car?
 
The data shows that, for whatever reason, the Accord hybrid generates fewer and less expensive medical claims than the Accord 4-door. My guess is that the variable here is the driver.
 
Thought I'd give you guys a quick update. We found a great deal on a 2004 Toyota Highlander 2.4L 4cyl. (One Owner) So, we traded the Suzuki for it, yeah its got 75,000 miles on it, but IMO, its quality far surpasses the Suzuki in everyway. So now, I'm thinking about selling my Truck and getting a 2005-2008 Corolla for my DD.
 
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Dodge Stratus?

Please, no.

I've been in more Stratus rentals than I ever care to recall, and that is one car that I'd NEVER own. Just as I'd NEVER own a Pontiac Grand Am. I have a name for those two models, and the name would be [censored] if I posted it. Here's a hint: S_!tbox.

I have to agree with MGregoir's logic above. The Series III 3800 is a bulletproof engine. I've seen several LeSabres with over 250,000 miles on the odometer, and the engines have never been opened up.

Not unusual to get 28-30mpg with an Impala on the interstate. That's quite remarkable for the size of car. I've rented much smaller cars and gotten worse gas mileage.



Hey... it's one thing to not care for a model of vehicle and voice that on the forum. After all, everyone has opinions. But it's quite another to call a car a sh*tbox. Some of us own those cars here, like them, and take offense to your comment. Now, I don't care for Silverados, but would you like it if I called that Silverado in your signature a gas-guzzling waste of sheet metal? Not too much, I bet.

Now, even though I don't particularly like Silverados (or really any GM save for a couple of models); I don't believe for a second that Silverados are a waste of sheet metal and in some cases are quite fuel efficient for what the owner might need to use them for. I'm just trying to make a point here. Please choose your comments more carefully next time.
 
Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Camu Mahubah
Why are you guys pushing an engine that's know for intake manifold gasket leaks? (3.8) Nothing wrong with the Fusion! I would much rather have a Fusion over a Forenza! I like GM cars if they come with Ecotec but I wouldn't be recommending GM V6 engines until it has been proven that the intake manifould gasket issues have been fixed!


Also, why are they pusing a gas guzzler motor on a new family? I would stay clear from any and all GM products, especially the gas guzzling Impalas and that ilk...they have reliability issues too. I would go with a Matrix, or Corolla, or Civic...a young family needs the room, the reliability, and migher MPG that only a Japanese car can provide...



Only a Japanese car can provide? Oh Please, give me a break!
 
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