Looking at NAPA Synthetic for 1968 Ford 289

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: TFB1
If it's stock whether it's rebuilt or not, just toss the QS Defy in it and be happy, I have same in a stock 428CJ Fairlane with 107K mi...

It's amazing that the oils of the 60s/70s had around 800ppm zinc(as reported by Blackstone when they tested original samples) but it's no longer good enough today...


Not amazing at all. Many of those engines failed. I regularly took apart engines with failed camshafts. We used to say that GM made engines with plastic camshafts, as they would wear out that rapidly.


Yeah no doubt, but we're talkin' about a Ford and they rarely had a camshaft issue...

 

[Cujet]

I'm not at all convinced M1, of the recommended viscosities, will leak out any faster than conventional oils.

 

[05LGTLtd]

Shell Rotella T5 10-w30? Part synthetic, good wear pack, price is right..

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: oldhp
While NAPA syn is good, it is energy conserving oil that does not have enough ZDDP in it to protect your flat tappet camshaft and lifters. You will have to add ZDDP additive or buy oil that has more of it in it already.
Joe Gibbs Racing oil
Lucas Hot Rod oil
Even Valvoline Racing oil is good.
Shell Rotella 15W40 should still be up there on ZDDP


This post should fall under simply false in the category pile.

 

[oldhp]

Why??? Everything stated is true. The oils I mentioned are only some of the oils you could use.
Why do you say false???

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: oldhp
Why??? Everything stated is true. The oils I mentioned are only some of the oils you could use.
Why do you say false???


Your statement on modern oils and ZDDP content is far from true.

 

[oldhp]

Um...modern energy conserving oils(5W30,10W30) do not have enough zinc to protect flat tappet/lifter engines, period.
Most everybody says at least 1000ppm zinc is needed, maybe more depending on the engine in question.
The other "Hot Rod" oils are made for the old style cam/lifters with more on propose zinc.
Quaker State Defy could be considered a modern oil, but has better zinc package specifically for older engines.
I'm no oil engineer or scientist but I'll stand by my statement as true and still wonder which field you are coming from.

 

[fdcg27]

Is this a stock cooking 289?
Unless this is a performance engine, either from factory or through mods, I don't think I'd be too worried about zinc levels in the oil you use.
The basic engine probably has low enough valve spring rates that it shouldn't matter.
If this were my car, I'd probably use Rotella T5 or Valvoline Maxlife and call it a day.
The NAPA synthetic would likely be fine, if that's what you'd like to use.
Remember that oil is not a matter of additive levels alone.
The quality of the basestocks is a couple of step changes beyond what was available to anyone when your engine was new and the same is true of the additives themselves.

 

[bigt61]

M1 15W-50 is all you need - no additives. It works in race cars, it will work in your 289.

 

[147_Grain]

Originally Posted By: bigt61
M1 15W-50 is all you need - no additives. It works in race cars, it will work in your 289.


Mobil 1 15W-50 or Amsoil 20W-50 Racing Oil.

 

[SS1970chrysler]

I had a 289 before and if I still had it, I'd use T-5, Defy, or even HD30w in it.
Incidentally, mine was a '64 motor from a Fairlane that I put in a '59 Galaxie 500.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: oldhp
Why??? Everything stated is true. The oils I mentioned are only some of the oils you could use.
Why do you say false???


Your statement on modern oils and ZDDP content is far from true.

As Doug and others have pointed out, just because an oil was from the 1960s, 1970s, or 1980s didn't mean it had a lot of ZDDP. And as was also pointed out, there were plenty of failures.

If one is concerned about ZDDP content, one need not buy an expensive additive or ridiculously expensive Joe Gibbs stuff. Two oil changes on that will buy you a new cam and lifters. Something like Defy or an HDEO 10w-30 would be more than enough.

 

[oldhp]

Garak, I was only stating that "energy conserving oils" are not the best ticket for older flat tappet engines. Evindently this is true or Defy type oils wouldn't made.
As far as Joe Gibbs oil, it is made for specifically for the old Hot Rod flat tappet engines. These cars most probably don't see regular mileage like our normal cars. With the money I have in my balanced/blue printed 440, the price of oil is the least of my worries or concern.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: bigt61
M1 15W-50 is all you need - no additives. It works in race cars, it will work in your 289.


So you're going to change it every 500 miles or so???

No way I'd use that stuff in a street engine...

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: bigt61
M1 15W-50 is all you need - no additives. It works in race cars, it will work in your 289.


So you're going to change it every 500 miles or so???

No way I'd use that stuff in a street engine...


Really? M1 15W-50 is not goo, like STP oil treatment. It's reasonably thin at any sane temperature.

Something is wrong when people consider a 15 viscosity "too thick".

 

[OVERKILL]

M1 0w-40 is my oil of choice for my Windsor's and I'd recommend it in a heartbeat for this application. Unless it has some Lunatti Voodoo bump-stick in it, concerns about the flat-tappet camshaft are unwarranted.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
M1 0w-40 is my oil of choice for my Windsor's and I'd recommend it in a heartbeat for this application. Unless it has some Lunatti Voodoo bump-stick in it, concerns about the flat-tappet camshaft are unwarranted.


Agreed. Friction modifiers work as well as zddp does as far as leaving a sacrificial anti wear layer on parts and in reality after break in lots of zddp is no longer required.
M1 0w-40 is some kick butt stuff. I've begun stocking it as I will be using it in my 5.0,and my 4.6 4V although slightly watered down with some tgmo(if I can find it). I'm also going to be using it in my chev 5.3 simply because I'm really liking it,and longer oil change intervals don't hurt my feelings.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: oldhp
Garak, I was only stating that "energy conserving oils" are not the best ticket for older flat tappet engines.

You won't get an argument from me on that. My point is that we get overly alarmed about new oils in old engines. Of course, I have some Defy on my shelf for the old F-150. I'm not so broke that I must find the cheapest API/ILSAC lube for the thing.

As for why Defy is made, while there may be a use, I think market demand plays an issue. People want it, even if they don't need it, and that's good enough to bring a product about. None of that detracts from the fact I think it's a great product.

With respect to your 440, I wouldn't be using anything substandard in it, either. However, if you read the Joe Gibbs stuff, they act as if you don't buy their ultra-expensive product, you're going to kill your old 305.

And they're far from the only player in high zinc oils, and far from the cheapest. For any legacy, stock, high performance application, I would suggest it would be hard to beat VR-1 for bang for the buck. Of course, in an application like yours, it might pay to be more discriminating.

 

[oldhp]

Originally Posted By: bigt61
M1 15W-50 is all you need - no additives. It works in race cars, it will work in your 289.

TFB1
M1 15W50 needs no additives, you could go 5K-8K easy on a street engine. Its not that it doesn't have any additives in it, it already has a very good oil package in it. This also would be a very good choice for a flat tappet engine.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: oldhp
Originally Posted By: bigt61
M1 15W-50 is all you need - no additives. It works in race cars, it will work in your 289.

TFB1
M1 15W50 needs no additives, you could go 5K-8K easy on a street engine. Its not that it doesn't have any additives in it, it already has a very good oil package in it. This also would be a very good choice for a flat tappet engine.


OK I must have been half asleep, for some reason it hit me that you were recommending a no additive(non-detergent) oil... Sorry 'bout that...

If mileage isn't excessive I use M1 0W-40 in most of my toys... The exception is the old 428CJ that still has its original rings, bearings and even rear main seal...