GON
$100 Site Donor 2024
Came across a picture of this Lockheed Constitution. Seems PAX seats in the front belly? If so, something I never saw before.
Lockheed Constitution- Pax seats in the belly?
- Thread starter GON
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Double fuselage. Not really “belly”. Everyone thinks the A-380 was the first “double decker”. Nah. The idea had been around for a long time before that pig took to the skies.
The Boeing 377 commercial airliner had two decks.
en.wikipedia.org
It was derived from the C-97, which was designed in 1942, and flew in 1947
en.wikipedia.org
The Douglas C-124 was the first real heavy lifter, in its cargo configuration, it could carry small tanks and heavy equipment. It had two decks for passengers, and first flew in 1949.
en.wikipedia.org
Lockheed was simply demonstrating an airplane that was contemporary to many. Designed in 1942. Delivered just after the war, about the same as the above. Navy got a couple of these, but they had problems, and then turboprops came out.
The Boeing 377 commercial airliner had two decks.
Boeing 377 Stratocruiser - Wikipedia
It was derived from the C-97, which was designed in 1942, and flew in 1947
Boeing C-97 Stratofreighter - Wikipedia
The Douglas C-124 was the first real heavy lifter, in its cargo configuration, it could carry small tanks and heavy equipment. It had two decks for passengers, and first flew in 1949.
Douglas C-124 Globemaster II - Wikipedia
Lockheed was simply demonstrating an airplane that was contemporary to many. Designed in 1942. Delivered just after the war, about the same as the above. Navy got a couple of these, but they had problems, and then turboprops came out.
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The nacelles look like they came off a P-47 Thunderbolt. I wonder of it had the same R-2800 engines?
R-4360s. Four row radials. Massive. Much bigger than the R-2800 but same basic diameter.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Haha - been calling it a pig myself responding to the airbus slobber being posted as part of the anti Boeing propaganda - without one subsided airline - that subsided plane would not exist - they bought over 100 alone … Really? don’t like the plane - and don’t like the hub concept my travel agent tries to shove at me …Double fuselage. Not really “belly”. Everyone thinks the A-380 was the first “double decker”. Nah. The idea had been around for a long time before that pig took to the skies.
The Boeing 377 commercial airliner had two decks.
Boeing 377 Stratocruiser - Wikipedia
It was derived from the C-97, which was designed in 1942, and flew in 1947
Boeing C-97 Stratofreighter - Wikipedia
The Douglas C-124 was the first real heavy lifter, in its cargo configuration, it could carry small tanks and heavy equipment. It had two decks for passengers, and first flew in 1949.
Douglas C-124 Globemaster II - Wikipedia
Lockheed was simply demonstrating an airplane that was contemporary to many. Designed in 1942. Delivered just after the war, about the same as the above. Navy got a couple of these, but they had problems, and then turboprops came out.
I know I’ve said this before, so I will summarize.
Just over 20 years ago, Boeing looked at the future and saw a market for an airplane that had the speed, range, and efficiency to go from major hub to midsize city. They called it 7E7. We call it 787, one of the most successful airliners, ever.
At the same time, airbus said the future of air travel is moving more and more people between hubs that are limited on space, so the best thing to do is build a giant airplane to move passengers between hubs. A-380.
Very clear that Boeing got that future right.
Isn't that the same engine the B-36 had?
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I've always wished I could've taken a trip on one of these old school prop driven passenger planes. So drastically different from today's sardine can get-you-there-as-cheaply-and-ASAP flights. Amazing to me that airlines could turn a profit on these planes too, which were very expensive to build, required high ticket prices for passengers, and didn't have the reliability and lower maintenance costs of modern passenger jets. Of course the US was a completely different place at that time economically.
Yes. It was the largest piston engine ever built. There were a bunch of airplanes that had it, including the B36.
The two Boeings that I linked above, had that engine.
Here is the Convair, double-decker passenger liner, derived from the B36, and equipped with those engines.
Convair XC-99 - Wikipedia
Well, you got actual cutlery, and dinner was a roast that the flight attendants cooked in the galley. The seats were two on each side of the aisle, in economy. And you could smoke, of course. You were expected to dress appropriately- which meant suit, or at the very least, jacket and tie. In 1968 and 1969, my father flew 250,000 miles on United Airlines. I still have the plaque they sent him.
It was all prop airplanes. I remember seeing him fly on Air Canada on DC-6s, when we lived in Winnipeg.
And you would be down at lower altitude, with more turbulence, in the weather, and take twice as long to get there.
And the economy ticket cost about half as much as a new car. Would you pay $10,000 to sit next to someone smoking, while being served the roast, and while wearing a suit, just to take twice as long to get there, and have a more bumpy ride on the way? That’s what my Dad experienced. At over $1,000 a ticket, in economy. In 1968. Our new Ford cost $2,500 that year.
There is a reason that travel isn’t like that any more - it’s economics. Most people are not willing to pay for that service.
And the airplane that started it?
This one - In 1968, it began flying and it dramatically lowered the cost per mile. It was fast. And it could fly nearly halfway around the world. It changed the very nature of air travel.
Holy smokes, 7000-8000 mile range…at 300 mph.Yes. It was the largest piston engine ever built. There were a bunch of airplanes that had it, including the B36.
The two Boeings that I linked above, had that engine.
Here is the Convair, double-decker passenger liner, derived from the B36, and equipped with those engines.
Convair XC-99 - Wikipedia
Can you imagine?
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Indeed - I look for 789’s or 350’s … nice rides both !
Both aircraft are examples of the product that results when you listen to your customer.
The 787 had its origins in an airplane that Boeing called the “sonic cruiser“. The idea was that by flying at high speed, a midsize airplane could travel a very long distance and cut out the hub to hub leg necessary when flying from San Francisco to say Chengdu, China. Airlines were very interested in the airplane, but in the early 2000s, when fuel prices spiked, they went back to Boeing and said “we like the speed, but we’re more interested in fuel efficiency“. The resulting airplane went from .95 to .85, still fast, but not quite as fast as before, kept the midsize, and the extreme range, and brought the fuel efficiency per seat mile up considerably.
The A-350 was originally intended to be the size of a 767, or an A300 replacement.
But the design was heavily influenced by international lease finance corporation, that wanted to see Airbus build a slightly larger airplane, closer to the triple seven in size. ILFC knew who the customers were and knew that they would be able to lease the airplane out to a lot of airlines. Airbus changed the size of the fuselage, the size of the whole project, and the resultant airplane is a great jet.
Funny how listening to your customers can work. Unfortunately, Boeing listened to the wrong customers, and kept building the 737, but that’s another story.
One other thing I should add. Dad always came home tired - back then, getting on a jet was rare.
He flew from Winnipeg Canada across the United States to various insurance agencies.
Most of that domestic flying was done on prop airplanes. And going from Denver, to New York, for example, at 300 mph, down low, in the weather would take seven hours and you’d be beat up at the end of it, then he would fly back through Chicago, and it was propeller aircraft most of the time.
Aircraft today are faster, and smoother, and far cheaper to operate, than they were back in the “glory days” of aviation, the result of turbine power plants, better wings, and a host of other, small, design improvements.
When you are going to finally tell us how you feel about the A-380?
I am always amazed at some of the knowledge on this site, especially about airplanes.
In early 1960 (I think), our parents flew us from Seattle to Portland to stay with grandparents while they took a trip to New York. I think it was a DC-7, probably on United, but other possibilities exist.
Definitely a four engine prop plane. It was pretty exciting as a little kid. The stewardesses were great.
In August 1974 the Army sent me home from Fort Sill. It was a Frontier Convair 600 turboprop from Lawton to OKC, then on to Liberal, Kansas where we landed in a scary thunderstorm once the pilot found the airport and on to Denver. From Denver to Seattle was on a very quiet and comfortable 727, the best airliner Boeing ever made. Just ask D.B. Cooper. The next day my wife and I announced our engagement.
Best prop plane ride was the Aluminum Overcast, a B-17G, back in February 2017. Also the smoothest landing I ever experienced.
Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major. 28 cylinders, 4,300 H.P. 56 spark plugs, 4,362.5 cubic inches. (71.5 L). In a B-36 it takes a total of 336 spark plugs.
I think I read somewhere that on the B-36 each engine had a 100 gallon oil tank. They consumed a lot of oil. And with that much it also helped in cooling.
I would love to know what the GPH fuel flow was with all 6 of them at takeoff power...... Not to mention the 4 jet engines it had.
en.wikipedia.org
I think I read somewhere that on the B-36 each engine had a 100 gallon oil tank. They consumed a lot of oil. And with that much it also helped in cooling.
I would love to know what the GPH fuel flow was with all 6 of them at takeoff power...... Not to mention the 4 jet engines it had.
Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major - Wikipedia
I think if I remember correctly, it was around 1970 when United started advertising they had an "all jet" fleet of aircraft.
Astro, On a 747, why is the rudder split in 2 pieces? Is the smaller section used for high speed flight?
If I remember right, I think there was a near accident at Anchorage, Alaska some years back, when that unit malfunctioned. They ended up landing OK, but the plane was a handful.
This was the flight,
en.wikipedia.org
If I remember right, I think there was a near accident at Anchorage, Alaska some years back, when that unit malfunctioned. They ended up landing OK, but the plane was a handful.
This was the flight,
Northwest Airlines Flight 85 - Wikipedia
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Will it ever make the shareholders a dime?
