Liquid and air cooling

[mjoekingz28]

Why dont engine builders incorporate the cooling fins that AC motors have WITH coolant passages?


Sure it could be too much of a goodthing, but itseems the thermostat could answer that.

And while we are at it......we need charged intake aireboxes with ram air

And also
We should have air directed into the engine bay, and somewhere to exhaust it in addition to cooling the radiator. Wind is basically free, so why not use it to cool hot parts if your not into slicing thru the air, using spoiler for downforce, leaving "no wake" or something else.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Contact Ford Motor Company. I think you're on to something.

 

[tinmanSC]

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Why dont engine builders incorporate the cooling fins that AC motors have WITH coolant passages?
Sure it could be too much of a goodthing, but itseems the thermostat could answer that.
And while we are at it......we need charged intake aireboxes with ram air
And also
We should have air directed into the engine bay, and somewhere to exhaust it in addition to cooling the radiator. Wind is basically free, so why not use it to cool hot parts if your not into slicing thru the air, using spoiler for downforce, leaving "no wake" or something else.

What do you mean incorporated with coolant passages? I guess I don't get it.

Air cooling engines is not nearly as efficient as you'd think. Like if you had a V6 or V8 or something, you'd get tremendous hotspots all over the place. Many design considerations. I would imagine ducting cool air in an engine bay would account for extremely little cooling unless the engine was specifically designed for that, which... really... there is no reason to. Liquid cooling works pretty well. That's why everyone uses it. It's not perfect, but it's pretty good! In 500K miles driven on various cars all over the US, I've never had a cooling system failure... even when I drove through the Nevada desert at 115 degrees going 115 mph. I got a great video of it! soo.. in short, my guess is the reason you don't see it implemented is because it's not that big of a deal.

 

[weasley]

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Why dont engine builders incorporate the cooling fins that AC motors have WITH coolant passages?

Because it is far easier (read "cheaper") to cast cylinder heads with a plain external surface.

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
Sure it could be too much of a goodthing, but itseems the thermostat could answer that.

Water cooling is very efficient compared to air cooling, so the fins are unnecessary and, as you say, the thermostat deals with temperature control.

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
And while we are at it......we need charged intake aireboxes with ram air

This only works at speed and besides, with the long air intake systems these days there is a degree of inertial super-charging and tuning of resonant frequencies to aid efficiency.

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
And also
We should have air directed into the engine bay, and somewhere to exhaust it in addition to cooling the radiator. Wind is basically free, so why not use it to cool hot parts if your not into slicing thru the air, using spoiler for downforce, leaving "no wake" or something else.

Because taking air into the engine bay upsets the aerodynamics of the car. At higher speed, this makes a big impact on overall efficiency. You can't 'use' the air to do something without suffering a penalty somewhere else.

 

[mjoekingz28]

Air charging can work at a standstill.

I had a Yamaha 600cc sportbike inline four cylinder. I took the fairings off and rode around without the air boxes and it sounded like a vtwin for some reason as I guess the air wasnt filling the cylinders as good.


Thank you for tour other answers, but I meant this mainly for high performance tracking, such as the Camaro driver who is overheating.

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Contact Ford Motor Company. I think you're on to something.

 

[pbm]

I don't mean to take this OT but I have always wondered if an air cooled motorcycle engine is as durable as a similarly sized water cooled engine?

 

[Shannow]

mjoeking, you need to look at the cooling system of the P51 Mustang...Ford might fit it to a mustang...

Interested in how ram air works stationary, unless you are pointed nose first at a hurricane.

 

[JHZR2]

Heat transfer to liquid is far more efficient (higher heat transfer coefficients per unit surface area) than to air. For really highly advanced applications, fins and enhanced surface contact (area) to liquid is done, but often things like two phase cooling and other approaches are used then, or else the old solution of more,mcooler flow of liquid is used.

Good thought process, but fins are added for thermal mass and more surface area under inefficient regimes, just not really needed here...

 

[NateDN10]

Really, (outside of marine applications) all cooling is air cooling. Water cooling is a way of increasing surface area (i.e. the radiator) and adding the ability to control how much cooling is being applied (i.e. the thermostat).

 

[SirTanon]

Here's the thing...

Water-cooled engines already have fins:

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: pbm
I don't mean to take this OT but I have always wondered if an air cooled motorcycle engine is as durable as a similarly sized water cooled engine?

Its my understanding that the piston cylinder clearances have to be bigger in an air cooled motor due to less control of engine temps. So a liquid cooled motor should out last an air cooled if they both are run hard.
On the other hand, it not uncommon to temporary seize an air cooled engine and then still be able to run it afterwards without much damage. I don't hear of too many LC motors surviving a seizure relatively unscathed, but maybe it happens?
My ATV has an oil cooler, but is air cooled primarily. It does have an overheat sensor that triggers a light when the oil reaches 300F, but I've never had it go on, even when plowing snow or skidding some logs in the summer. I do pay attention though and never run it above 1/2 throttle for sustained periods. A LC machine should be able to handle being run harder.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28

Thank you for tour other answers, but I meant this mainly for high performance tracking, such as the Camaro driver who is overheating.


Maybe he just needs a Flow Tie...

http://blog.caranddriver.com/let-it-flow...ancing-flowtie/

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: pbm
I don't mean to take this OT but I have always wondered if an air cooled motorcycle engine is as durable as a similarly sized water cooled engine?

Its my understanding that the piston cylinder clearances have to be bigger in an air cooled motor due to less control of engine temps. So a liquid cooled motor should out last an air cooled if they both are run hard.
On the other hand, it not uncommon to temporary seize an air cooled engine and then still be able to run it afterwards without much damage. I don't hear of too many LC motors surviving a seizure relatively unscathed, but maybe it happens?
My ATV has an oil cooler, but is air cooled primarily. It does have an overheat sensor that triggers a light when the oil reaches 300F, but I've never had it go on, even when plowing snow or skidding some logs in the summer. I do pay attention though and never run it above 1/2 throttle for sustained periods. A LC machine should be able to handle being run harder.



Thanks....that makes sense..