Lighting Advice - This May Start a War...

[Nate1979]

We converted our house over to CFL's when we moved in 4 years ago. We haven't had one fail yet. I have enough stock that I don't expect to have any bulb purchase for another 5 years assuming the CFL's continue to work fine. My problem with LED's is that you are shifting from operating expense to capital expense. In this case reliability is the number one thing that can turn it from a good investment to a poor investment. One bulb failure in X (would have to calculate X based on the various costs) can mean you just lost your savings vs CFL. Too many people have had some failures with LED's to lead me to believe that their reliability is high enough to make the final payoff worth it.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979

We converted our house over to CFL's when we moved in 4 years ago. We haven't had one fail yet. I have enough stock that I don't expect to have any bulb purchase for another 5 years assuming the CFL's continue to work fine. My problem with LED's is that you are shifting from operating expense to capital expense. In this case reliability is the number one thing that can turn it from a good investment to a poor investment. One bulb failure in X (would have to calculate X based on the various costs) can mean you just lost your savings vs CFL. Too many people have had some failures with LED's to lead me to believe that their reliability is high enough to make the final payoff worth it.

I had been using CFL's for more than 10 years. Its life was usually much longer than incandescent bulb. I have enough CFL bulbs to last 10 years or more, I paid on average about 9 cents for 60-75W equivalent and 19 cents for 100-150W equivalent. Light output of CFL to me is okay, may be my eyes are not so good to see the different between CFL and incandescent. I think LED bulbs are still too expensive at more than $2-3 for most bulbs, I will not convert to LED until its price drops below $1/ea.

 

[Cutehumor]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Originally Posted By: Nate1979

We converted our house over to CFL's when we moved in 4 years ago. We haven't had one fail yet. I have enough stock that I don't expect to have any bulb purchase for another 5 years assuming the CFL's continue to work fine. My problem with LED's is that you are shifting from operating expense to capital expense. In this case reliability is the number one thing that can turn it from a good investment to a poor investment. One bulb failure in X (would have to calculate X based on the various costs) can mean you just lost your savings vs CFL. Too many people have had some failures with LED's to lead me to believe that their reliability is high enough to make the final payoff worth it.

I had been using CFL's for more than 10 years. Its life was usually much longer than incandescent bulb. I have enough CFL bulbs to last 10 years or more, I paid on average about 9 cents for 60-75W equivalent and 19 cents for 100-150W equivalent. Light output of CFL to me is okay, may be my eyes are not so good to see the different between CFL and incandescent. I think LED bulbs are still too expensive at more than $2-3 for most bulbs, I will not convert to LED until its price drops below $1/ea.

Since you have 10 more years of CFL bulbs stored away and your not going to buy LED bulbs are $1 each, it appears you don't have to worry about LED bulbs at all. If I were over 50 years old, I wouldn't buy LED bulbs with 20 year life expectancy. Unless, I can be buried with my LED bulbs to light up my gasket so I can see

 

[Touring5]

Aside from efficiency and long-life, I prefer LED for the fact that they dim pretty well, come on with full brightness, and aren't affected by low temperatures. I've mostly used Cree bulbs and last week bought some more. I tried a couple of the 4Flow bulbs - they're really light and feel kind of cheap compared to the previous glass/rubber feeling ones. One of the 4Flows put out purple light on one quadrant, so I exchanged it for the older design.

 

[tony1679]

So I'm guessing based on the responses that the verdict is to go LED? I see Cree is well-loved (maybe except for the 4flows), are there other good ones? Bad ones? I just don't want to spend ~$10 per bulb if there is another great one for half the price. But if they really are worth it, I won't exclude them.

 

[JHZR2]

LED all the way. CFLs can be hit or miss in many ways. We used a lot of CFLs when we moved into our home nearly 9 years ago. I'm happy to say that most are still in use. They seem to be best in situations where the bright end can point down at a 45 degree angle and the globe around is transparent. We have them in highly used ceiling fans in that orientation with glass gloves and the 100w equivalents are wonderful. Some other places they're hit or miss. CFLs can be had for cheaper than LEDs, but the light quality from LED, especially the 3000K versions are really good. I'd definitely take the LED if I had a choice, unless the cfl is compellingly cheaper or you know will perform really well. For example, if/when the CFLs go out in our fans that we've run them in, I'll probably replace with the GE reveal CFLs, which are expensive but excellent. Some CFLs are more directional than LEDs, but it depends upon how the heat sync is directed in the LED. Incandescent type bulbs only get used in fixtures where there is a sensor that needs a bit of current draw. Even there I tend to "hybridize" with a cfl or led (eg outdoor motion sensor lights).

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Touring5

I've mostly used Cree bulbs and last week bought some more. I tried a couple of the 4Flow bulbs - they're really light and feel kind of cheap compared to the previous glass/rubber feeling ones. One of the 4Flows put out purple light on one quadrant, so I exchanged it for the older design.

I have some of both, the older design has rubbery goo on the outside of the "glass" that seems like it would retain spider webs & dust. The 4-way ones aren't that weird; they put out enough light you can't stare at them to check up on the distribution.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer

Originally Posted By: DriveHard

I understand not using incandescent lighting inside in the summer months...but what about the winter? If I am already paying to heat my house, what does it matter if some (or most) of the energy is being turned into heat as long as it is inside my home I am already paying to heat. Of course if you have natural gas heating, it will be slightly more expensive energy source, but if you have electric heat...there should be no difference. Thoughts?

Not sure if troll...

You are correct so long as you are heating the house. In the warm months they are a wallet buster since you are paying to REMOVE the heat.

 

[Nick1994]

I've got some LED bulbs, and they're really cheap at IKEA

 

[Cujet]

I replaced my recessed lighting with LED's. They are fantastic and trouble free. Interestingly, I love the way they dim. They don't turn amber/burnt orange color when dimmed. They simply put out less light. Sure, I don't get the "mood lighting" effect when dimmed. So what? Instead, the dimmed LED's retain the color temperature perfectly and I can adjust the lighting to the proper brightness at any time of the day or night. In other words, plenty bright during the daytime, less bright at night. I'm pleased with my Cree 100W (equiv) bulbs too. I cannot tell the difference between them and standard bulbs. I have 8 outdoor spotlights. Mostly LED, various brands. The brighter 130w (equiv) LED spotlights from Home Depot are really good (eco-smart brand) and produce fantastic light and illuminate a very large area well. However, the particular Eco-Smart model I purchased is known to be unreliable. The Costco FEIT brand ones are 90W (equiv) and are too blue, too dim for my large yard.

 

[1 FMF]

3. the plastic base of some cfl lights yellowing is the heat and ultraviolet light emitted from the bulb breaking down the plastic. thats if its indoors, it could also be from direct sunlight. 2. concerned, yes a little. dont base your lighting solely on cfl bulbs and their size. their downside is their electronic ballast failing. ive had cfl floods in my kitchen last less than a year and those i bought at earth day at work, went thru 5+ over the years while an incandescant flood near it still fine and 3x as old. cfl has lousy color temperature, especially if you want warm temperature daylight color of lighting. but i have a spiral cfl as back deck light and while it takes a minute to produce light in winter it still works after 5 or so years. but its on 10 min max at most twice a day, the x hours of advertised life over incandescant is bogus. i dont think ive had any cfl last to half its rated life.

 

[Quest]

+1 to what 1FMF said. CFL is a hit-n-miss affair, and while not some some of the folk's favour, I too, have stocked up on CFLs enough for at least 10+yrs of use. Quality of the electronic ballast (within) dictates the overall reliability and longevity of the bulb. cheeply made ones can be had for cheep, but you pay the price for early/premature failure also. LED is not a fully mature technology yet, so cost for mass-production (w/o subsidy) is still relatively high. As for the CFL lighting tube, chinese govt gives additional subsidy for having manufacturing facilities in their land so as to keep them low. I don't want to get into the discussion of mercury during production, disposal and/or recovery part. Lastly: my house came with 28 potlights, which I retrofitted most of them with 13W CFLs, and some with 10Watts CFLs. my area doesn't give a lot of subsidies for LED bulbs, so I'm staying away from buying LEDs unless I'm in WA or OR where sometimes PSE has additional subsidies towards energy saving bulbs (which then I would stock up). latest round of savings came from shopping in Oregon where 60Watt equivalent GeeEee LEDs can be had @ wallymart for 2 for 4.95bux. Great deal (and I have bought 4 pairs for washroom lightbulb retrofitting. Q.

 

[Vikas]

I have had mostly CFL for many years. The most used ones I have replaced with LEDs. Other CFL, I am going to wait until they burn out which is NOT happening as fast as I would like :-) I have stocked up good quality LED bulbs for about $6 each. They are not Cree based but the color rendition is extremely nice. Probably less than 10% of bulbs in my house are incandescent now, most of them are outside or way up near the vaulted ceiling where access is difficult. Many local hardware stores have LED at competitive prices and I always pick up at least one when they are in $5 range just to check out their quality. When I like them, I stock them up. Who knows, by the time, I actually use all of them up, the price would be even lower! I also have stock of CFLs which were purchased for few cents each. I am not sure how I am going to use them up now. Recently, I bought the Costco twin tube LED shoplights. I am putting them in basement, garage and attic so I will not have to use up my stock of LED bulbs. My real complain with the CFL was that unless I spent lot of money, the lumen output was limited. Fortunately, LED shoplights are extremely bright and they should last lifetime (ha!)

 

[Schmoe]

Went to CFL's a few years back. They didn't last as long as advertised, for sure. I tried them all....high dollar, low dollar...same result. One thing I really started hating about CFL's is the stupid super duper high pitched buzzing sound they give off. Drives me absolutely nuts. We just remodeled the kitchen and I specified all can mounted LED's....one word....WOW. Even with a dimmer switch, they rock. My neighbor has a LED flood light setup in his front yard and those baby's will absolutely blind you at night when they get triggered. I really like that. So, like you, I'm in the process of switching all bulbs to LED...not just going to jump ship, but rather replace as they die, and with the CFL's, it won't take long.

 

[datech]

Originally Posted By: DriveHard

I understand not using incandescent lighting inside in the summer months...but what about the winter? If I am already paying to heat my house, what does it matter if some (or most) of the energy is being turned into heat as long as it is inside my home I am already paying to heat. Of course if you have natural gas heating, it will be slightly more expensive energy source, but if you have electric heat...there should be no difference. Thoughts?

You are absolutely correct. My current all electric apt has a two bulb infrared heater in the ceiling and I bought a red heat bulb to use for warning my hands when I come in from the cold. There is a difference on how the heat gets distributed. Heaters with fans do this but a lot of times it is better to have radiant heat as you don't have to heat the air to feel the warmth.