Liberty Dollar Thoughts

[msparks]

Originally Posted By: Rick in PA
I think the fact that it is stamped $20 is a flaw.


Oh was going to say too, you don't think it's a flaw that the $1 is on the Silver Eagle? or $50 on the Gold American Buffalo.?

 

[oilyriser]

If I wanted to do a similar program, I'd make a bunch of individually engraved silver two-ounce pieces from a reputable assaying company, with a tracing number and website on them. If you really got paranoid, you could look up a photo of each piece and check the unique engraved pattern to verify it's authenticity. If the web was down, you could go to the company and look it up in person, or order a DVD of all the photos of all the pieces. The piece would not state any dollar value, but a measured quantity of pure metal. I'd also carry a small digital scale with 0.1 g accuracy and resolution.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: Johnny
They can't put a dollar value on the coin as currency as they are not the U.S. Mint.


Why not? Why is the mint "allowed" to assign a dollar value to paper; and private people, voluntarily accepting it's value, are not?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Johnny
They can't put a dollar value on the coin as currency as they are not the U.S. Mint.


Why not? Why is the mint "allowed" to assign a dollar value to paper; and private people, voluntarily accepting it's value, are not?


They usually claim the Constitution, Article I, section 8, clause 5. I don't read it exactly that way. But any power the Gov. CAN claim, they WILL claim.

 

[msparks]

I think that is where they got into a bind with the Liberty Certificates.

They started making LD certificates that were backed 100% in silver and gold. The KGB, I mean US Government went in and confiscated all the silver and put Bernard up on some charges or something like that.

I don't think anything ever happened with the "bullion" as once you buy it, it's yours.

The Constitution says that only the US Mint has the power to "coin" money. That is why the Liberty Dollar is a "PVBC" Private Volunteer Currency and has an MSRP Manufacture Suggested Retail Price on it. It's not "coin"

You could think of it the same as someone trading a bottle of oil, for say a haircut. It's just easier to carry around $20 worth of silver than $20 worth of oil. You could also easily determine it's value based on the weight and purity.

As far as carrying around a scale or something, if something like this gets started, the reputation of the company manufacturing the product will precede the value.

Just like with other products out there, there is no need to send off a sample of Pennzoil to be sure it meets specification. The reputation and Quality Assurance is all that is normally needed. If in the future, something going awry then that reputation would be tarnished and folks probably wouldn't use this.

I think everyone is trying to make this idea "fit" into a the mold of money. It's not money. It's a product, plain and simple.

 

[msparks]

Some reading for your enjoyment.

http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2008/cr021308h.htm

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: msparks
Originally Posted By: Shannow
When the masses start talking about it, then they are scared and lining up to be fleeced.


Haven't we been fleeced since 1912?




Sure, but in the last (near) 30 years, it's been done with "economic fads". The most popular and devastating being those involving real estate speculation and things like FSLIC ..and even much bigger institutions backing them ..and taking it out a whole new door. Another was the evolution under some apparent "common sense" mandate ..to push everyone's pension savings into the market ..where it was there for the taking. It got took.

What's the next economic fad? Get in early ..get out when everyone finally shows up to the chuck wagon bell. Just make sure your belly is full and leave early. The line will be much longer than the vittals hold out ..and everyone paid at the door.

This would have been something to do when it was out of vogue. Now you should be selling silver that you acquired cheaper.

 

[tom slick]

Just follow the yellow brick road with your silver slippers...

 

[eljefino]

How much gold would you need to buy a week's staple groceries? A fleck? I like the idea of a bag of pre 1965 dimes & quarters. One can easily find the multiplier for what they're "really worth".

 

[oilyriser]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
What's the next economic fad? Get in early ..get out when everyone finally shows up to the chuck wagon bell. Just make sure your belly is full and leave early. The line will be much longer than the vittals hold out ..and everyone paid at the door.


Inheritance tax seems a likely target for expansion, with the large Boomer cohort a few decades away. There will be an Out. Slowly pass on your estate before you die, and it escapes the tax man. This will be one of the few times when the successful are rewarded, and failures are punished. If you fail to raise good children who can be trusted to take care of you after you give them your estate, you get to feed the tax man with what's left over.

 

[msparks]

Originally Posted By: oilyriser

Inheritance tax seems a likely target for expansion, with the large Boomer cohort a few decades away. There will be an Out. Slowly pass on your estate before you die, and it escapes the tax man.


You could bury all your Liberty Dollars in the back yard and leave a note for your heirs.

I was talking to a friend of mine and their grandmother keeps finding envelops full of money throughout the house. I guess you don't have to worry about the bank getting it that way.

 

[Primus]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Johnny
They can't put a dollar value on the coin as currency as they are not the U.S. Mint.


Why not? Why is the mint "allowed" to assign a dollar value to paper; and private people, voluntarily accepting it's value, are not?


They usually claim the Constitution, Article I, section 8, clause 5. I don't read it exactly that way. But any power the Gov. CAN claim, they WILL claim.


These "New Liberty Dollars" don't indicate which dollars, so they don't pretend to be a legal tender in the US or in some other country with dollars in circulation.

As for the US Mint, it has nothing to do with paper dollars which are printed by Fed. But, if I am not mistaken, according to the US Constitution Fed does not have right to create money.

As for investment in silver (in fact, it's more a hedge than an investment), I think it's right idea, especially in view of developping crisis and obvious silver shortage in the future, but I would buy only bullion coins (legal tenders) and bars/ingots of well known affinage companies. The choice usually depends on premiums and personal wallet.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: oilyriser
Slowly pass on your estate before you die, and it escapes the tax man.


You can't do that because of the federal gift tax. The federal gift tax and the estate tax or intertwined in that the gifts in essence lower your estate, but you must pay a gift tax. Everything is accounted for together and both apply to the transfer credit that gets most people out of the estate/gift tax.

 

[msparks]

Actually you can give $10,000 per year per family member without the gift tax. Now I don't know if Obama is going to stop that or not with the expiring tax cuts, but as of now, that's what you can do.

Again, those buried Liberty Dollars in the Back yard.... Hmmm..

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: msparks
Actually you can give $10,000 per year per family member without the gift tax.


True, but that eats away at the transfer credit, so if you have a huge estate, you can still get hammered even when you gift.

 

[tom slick]

how many of you have amassed over $2M to worry about death taxes?

 

[dwendt44]

Gift tax doesn't kick in until after $12K.

 

[msparks]

They had something in the local news yesterday about a "barter" system. It wasn't money based, but some kind of "credit" system.

Companies Return to Barter System - Erika Lathon

What if you could increase business without spending cash?

That's what some companies are doing through the barter system.

Lois Knox of basket of Flowers in Hermitage has been part of Tradebank since 2004.

Tradebank is a network of companies that trade goods and services without using cash.

When you offer a service, you accumulate "trade dollars."

You can then use those dollars to barter with hundreds of companies in the network.

You can find out more through the Tradebank website. We've put up a link to the site under "Fox Links".

http://www.tradebank.com/

 

[oilyriser]

Taxes still are supposed to be taken out of that system, but at least you get away from the commercial banks... until the central barter house starts acting like a bank.

 

[msparks]

Originally Posted By: oilyriser
Taxes still are supposed to be taken out of that system, but at least you get away from the commercial banks... until the central barter house starts acting like a bank.


That's one reason I'm sorta skeptical of doing the Liberty Dollar. I buy them for $18, and sell them for $20, I gotta collect tax on everyone I distribute. F that, too much of a pain. I don't want to do it as a "business". Just as an educational tool to get folks to wake up to the fleecing they are getting by the Fed, and the Treasury.