Let's talk BMW's

[edwardh1]

is bmw slow to fix problems when they do develop? (compared to Japenese who seem to not wait til a model year)?
two examples of german "we made it so its perfect, and we wont change it)" thinking was
- early to mid 90 bmw air cond units were very underpowered. I read an article where they quoted a BMW officil who said in the late 90s they increased the capacity like 30%. not ever hot in germany?
-vw in the early 80s on rabbitts took 5 years to change the valve stem seal material to stop really gross oil burning.

 

[copperlocks1]

From my experience with an older E34 model BMW; the plastics/rubber are fairly brittle;..the leather seats are second to none;
the Germans love to add electrical wiring to everything..the steering and road feedback and handling are superb..the engine has not given me any troubles so far..yes parts are expensive(anything for the engine 50-100 you to death);
mileage is bad (has to do with my Rt. foot turning to lead when I drive it)..she only drinks premium
..when I open her throat up she sings better than my TT300zx(this had a rod failure)..
they are very heavy cars for their size.the maintenance schedules MUST be adhered to....pay to play...
as for most things new ;they are eye candy and not made for longevity any more ;enjoy..throw in trash when finished.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: edwardh1
is bmw slow to fix problems when they do develop? (compared to Japenese who seem to not wait til a model year)?
two examples of german "we made it so its perfect, and we wont change it)" thinking was
- early to mid 90 bmw air cond units were very underpowered. I read an article where they quoted a BMW officil who said in the late 90s they increased the capacity like 30%. not ever hot in germany?
-vw in the early 80s on rabbitts took 5 years to change the valve stem seal material to stop really gross oil burning.


I don't know about that, Toyota continued to build sludging engines and defective frames and Honda built glass transmissions all for quite some time. And we can't forget Nissan and their engine-killing catalysts, Subaru and their head gaskets....etc.

 

[E365]

Originally Posted By: 45ACP
EDIT: Also please note.. i too saw two new 3-series one behind the other the other day. i suspect one was an E90 and the one in front of it maybe an "F30." The one that was in front had the taillights that had the look EXACTLY like this, with the taillights on the side up from the ones on the trunk, as in the black vehicle that says "335i" here


The original E90 (2006-2008) had the tailights shown in picture number 2, the white car. In model year 2009 and later they had the "LCI" version which stands for "Life Cycle Impulse", a fancy name for a mid-generation facelift. The LCI cars got new tailights (among other changes) with the notch. The front car was probably a 2009+ E90 and the rear car was probably a 2006-2008 E90.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I don't know about that, Toyota continued to build sludging engines and defective frames and Honda built glass transmissions all for quite some time. And we can't forget Nissan and their engine-killing catalysts, Subaru and their head gaskets....etc.


Yes, but I never heard any of them refer to themselves as the 'ultimate driving machine'!

Great discussion, very balanced.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I don't know about that, Toyota continued to build sludging engines and defective frames and Honda built glass transmissions all for quite some time. And we can't forget Nissan and their engine-killing catalysts, Subaru and their head gaskets....etc.


Yes, but I never heard any of them refer to themselves as the 'ultimate driving machine'!

Did you hear them refer to their cars as reliable and/or economical transportation for everyday families?

 

[SteveSRT8]

yes I did, and they were found sadly lacking in my book!

 

[rslifkin]

IMO, it's worth giving up 5% in reliability to gain 50% in fun factor.

 

[nleksan]

+1 to the 5% for 50!

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
IMO, it's worth giving up 5% in reliability to gain 50% in fun factor.

Agreed.

A car that isn't worth driving but never breaks... still isn't worth driving.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Bravo. I like a fun car as much as the next guy.

But I still keep hearing a small but vocal group of disappointed BMW owners who, like me, owned them and were left feeling dissatisfied. There's just too much info out there to support this. That was the purpose of the thread. I had hopes for some more objectivity.

But as usual the passion we all feel for our favorite brand gets in the way of rational thought. I think that is what the BMW brand has going for it.

I'm as guilty as the next guy.

 

[d00df00d]

Well, there isn't exactly a huge body of reliable statistics to work with here.

Subjectivity is likely in any case, but it's guaranteed in the absence of data.

 

[MCompact]

Maybe I'd be as disillusioned as some former owners if I had experienced some of the problems they report- but I just haven't. As I mentioned previously, I spend less than $400 per month to keep my entire fleet running, and that includes two BMWs with over 120,000 miles on them(they should be hellishly expensive to keep running, right?). If you want to talk major problems and expensive repairs, I'd be happy to discuss my Mazdaspeed 3...

In any event, every brand has a "small but vocal" group of prior owners who are willing to lambast it at every opportunity.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
In any event, every brand has a "small but vocal" group of prior owners who are willing to lambast it at every opportunity.

Good call.

 

[cchase]

I haven't been too impressed with BMW in recent years. I want to like them but peoples views on them, once you remove the bias, seems mixed at best. People who lease them tend to love them. Long term owners seem to accept the headaches for the "experience".

I do not think they are statistically less reliable than their competition and they do offer a good entry-level luxury/sport experience.

My gut feeling on BMW is that they are spending too much time over-designing everything and the cars feel that way. They seem to lose a little bit of their "soul" with every new iteration. Step from an E36 to an E90 and it's night and day.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
...But I still keep hearing a small but vocal group of disappointed BMW owners who, like me, owned them and were left feeling dissatisfied. There's just too much info out there to support this. That was the purpose of the thread. I had hopes for some more objectivity.


To counter that, there is a large but vocal group of BMW owners that defend the marque's shortcomings and faults.

The E30 did not have a cardboard dash! It was a high tech cellulose composite

The shifter throw on the E30 was not 4 ft long! It was 2 ft and that's by design! It's much better than those stupid short throws on the MX-5 Miata

The first generation i-Drive was incredibly intuitive...you're just too stupid to understand it.

Replacing the cooling system every 80,000 miles is completely acceptable

Vanos seals are designed to be replaced regularly...it's by design

 

[SteveSRT8]

Yeah, no lambasting here. I only spoke to my own experiences over a ten year period when I bought and sold several German cars. Both BMW and Mercedes. My experiences were much worse with the BMW's than the Mercs, and I bought my last BMW brand new.

We already mentioned Passionate Owners. That is considered a GOOD sign in my book. The fact that people love the marque and are willing to defend it is a great indicator of happiness in ownership.

I did not knock them or in any way speak unfairly about them. I just wanted to hear more from this board.

Thanks to all.

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
We already mentioned Passionate Owners. That is considered a GOOD sign in my book. The fact that people love the marque and are willing to defend it is a great indicator of happiness in ownership.


Technically, outwardly passionate defensive owners may also indicate people who have spent a lot of money on something (anything, not just cars) and will defend it to the death even as they secretly regret their decision.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: cchase
Technically, outwardly passionate defensive owners may also indicate people who have spent a lot of money on something (anything, not just cars) and will defend it to the death even as they secretly regret their decision.

Indeed.

 

[meep]

i'm not well-versed but have been close to a few. I *really* wanted an e36 a few years back but couldn't find one that didn't look like it hadn't been in a homemade fast and furious movie. I found a couple of late 90's 7 series that were priced unbelievably low... ran smooth... felt great... but all the dash displays were shot. later was told the bmw 4.0 V8 was notorious for failed HG.

I never met a 318 owner that didn't absolutely love it. simple, reliable, tossable, and looked much easier to maintain with the extra engine room.

the 528s were probably my favorite of the bunch. The one thing I did surmise, was that they were all solid, drove like a dream, but were prone to electronics problems... so simpler was better.

I co-worker here recently bought a 3-series AWD... maybe early 2000's? and yes it drove like 20-clawed cat (18?) but suspension problems ate that car alive. CV's, every ball joint, bushings, tie rods.... if it twisted, it failed, all by 80,000. and the car looked mint.

I'd still love an unmolested 318 or 528 for commuter duty, auto or stick, i don't care.