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There are situations known as no win scenarios. No one said the proper action was practical ..or even possible. It just has practical assignments of liabilities for practical reasons.
Legal Hypothetical - Rear Ended w/o Brake Lights
- Thread starter calvin1
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Kestas
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Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
I think there would still be some culpability on your part because you hit them.
Faulty brake lights/burned out bulbs happen and they're not really an excuse for hitting another vehicle. What if the other driver is using their manual transmission to slow down and not using the brakes until they are right at the light?
Then why do we even bother putting brake lights on cars?
I think there would still be some culpability on your part because you hit them.
Faulty brake lights/burned out bulbs happen and they're not really an excuse for hitting another vehicle. What if the other driver is using their manual transmission to slow down and not using the brakes until they are right at the light?
Then why do we even bother putting brake lights on cars?
In most states you have a duty to avoid an accident if possible.
I would worry about equipment malfunction and in some places a bunch of insurance fraud artists deliberately cutting the wires.
Was behind a cavalier yesterday where only the CHMSL worked, yet the red turnsignal worked. Figure the turn signal switch was not letting brake light current through. I didn't hit him BTW. Thankfully the CHMSL wiring bypasses the multi function switch. Wouldn't have been an issue if they used amber turns like the rest of the planet.
I would worry about equipment malfunction and in some places a bunch of insurance fraud artists deliberately cutting the wires.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
In most states you have a duty to avoid an accident if possible.
I would worry about equipment malfunction and in some places a bunch of insurance fraud artists deliberately cutting the wires.
Was behind a cavalier yesterday where only the CHMSL worked, yet the red turnsignal worked. Figure the turn signal switch was not letting brake light current through. I didn't hit him BTW. Thankfully the CHMSL wiring bypasses the multi function switch. Wouldn't have been an issue if they used amber turns like the rest of the planet.
I didn't mention GM specifically in the OP but I had the same suspicion you mention. They had a very weak turn signal stalk switch during the 90's that would fail and cause the side brake lights not to light. I owned a 96 Lumina with this issue; the brake lights worked if you put a little pressure on the stalk
. Thankfully my company retired soon after and I didn't need to get the steering column cracked open to have the stupid $15 dollar part replaced. I see many of the Luminas on the road have this problem. The vehicle I posted about was an Oldsmobile minivan from the late 90's but I don't know just how many GM vehicles used that same shoddy switch.
In most states you have a duty to avoid an accident if possible.
I would worry about equipment malfunction and in some places a bunch of insurance fraud artists deliberately cutting the wires.
I didn't mention GM specifically in the OP but I had the same suspicion you mention. They had a very weak turn signal stalk switch during the 90's that would fail and cause the side brake lights not to light. I owned a 96 Lumina with this issue; the brake lights worked if you put a little pressure on the stalk
. Thankfully my company retired soon after and I didn't need to get the steering column cracked open to have the stupid $15 dollar part replaced. I see many of the Luminas on the road have this problem. The vehicle I posted about was an Oldsmobile minivan from the late 90's but I don't know just how many GM vehicles used that same shoddy switch.- Joined
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Hand signals are still taught in PA. I actually encountered this once ..and nearly slammed into a car with no brake lights. The driver was using the proper hand signal and I was just caught off guard.
Try this one:
Wife pulls out from a 4-way intersection (1 in the morning), gets slammed by someone who's probably drunk, driving without headlights, who blows the stop sign. She calls the police, they show up, but the guy kept on driving so they can't find him. She finds out a year later that there's a point on her license from that, and she was found to be at fault.
Wife pulls out from a 4-way intersection (1 in the morning), gets slammed by someone who's probably drunk, driving without headlights, who blows the stop sign. She calls the police, they show up, but the guy kept on driving so they can't find him. She finds out a year later that there's a point on her license from that, and she was found to be at fault.
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Originally Posted By: ccs v2.0
What is the proper hand signal to slow down/stop in PA?
Arm up (90° angle) Right turn
Arm out(0°) Left turn
Arm down (w/ hand open and palm facing rearward) - Slow+Stop.
This shouldn't just be for PA. The whole nation had no brake lights and/or turn signals at one time.
They don't test you on these at the driving test, but they are in the manual and may be on the computer test to get your permit.
What is the proper hand signal to slow down/stop in PA?
Arm up (90° angle) Right turn
Arm out(0°) Left turn
Arm down (w/ hand open and palm facing rearward) - Slow+Stop.
This shouldn't just be for PA. The whole nation had no brake lights and/or turn signals at one time.
They don't test you on these at the driving test, but they are in the manual and may be on the computer test to get your permit.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Depends where you drive. Try doing that in Chicago area, and you'll get 10 different dumb-asses who will squeeze in that extra space that you've created between yourself and the vehicle ahead.
Same here. I usually leave a lot more room than most cars do, but everyone sees this as an invitation to shove themselves in. What can I do?
I once hit a guy with no brake lights. I'd left a fair bit of space betwen us, but we were on the highway, and by the time I realized he was getting closer way faster than he should be, it was too late. Pulled over, checked both cars, no visible damage. The other guy waved me off, was yakking on his cell phone the whole time. I never even got to tell him his brake lights didn't work.
I guess someone else will have to.
Depends where you drive. Try doing that in Chicago area, and you'll get 10 different dumb-asses who will squeeze in that extra space that you've created between yourself and the vehicle ahead.
Same here. I usually leave a lot more room than most cars do, but everyone sees this as an invitation to shove themselves in. What can I do?
I once hit a guy with no brake lights. I'd left a fair bit of space betwen us, but we were on the highway, and by the time I realized he was getting closer way faster than he should be, it was too late. Pulled over, checked both cars, no visible damage. The other guy waved me off, was yakking on his cell phone the whole time. I never even got to tell him his brake lights didn't work.
If you are following a car so closely that you cant see what is ahead of it, then you are following too darn close. At least offset a little bit so you can see what is happening ahead of the car immediately in front of you.
Originally Posted By: Johnny
That person might get a ticket for a faulty brake light, but you would still be at fault for hitting them. Does not seem right, but that is how the system works.
That must vary by location...
My brother forgot to hook up trailer lights once and got rearended. It was considered (entirely) his fault.
That person might get a ticket for a faulty brake light, but you would still be at fault for hitting them. Does not seem right, but that is how the system works.
That must vary by location...
My brother forgot to hook up trailer lights once and got rearended. It was considered (entirely) his fault.
I've used hand signals on rare occasions even with brake lights functioning. Especially if there is a good possibility of the sun blinding the follower- e.g., where I used to live there was an east-west main street and I drove westbound in the evenings, having to make a right-hand turn a couple of blocks before home. Hand signals did not hurt.
As for the brake light thing, I thought if your equipment was defective such that it caused an accident you were held liable.
As for the brake light thing, I thought if your equipment was defective such that it caused an accident you were held liable.
Kestas
Staff member
Originally Posted By: andyd
If you are following a car so closely that you cant see what is ahead of it, then you are following too darn close. At least offset a little bit so you can see what is happening ahead of the car immediately in front of you.
Rather difficult to do when you don't own a truck, van, or SUV, which are 70% of the vehicles on my roads. 80% of my driving is done in heavy traffic with a low profile vehicle. Offsetting would bring me dangerously close to the left lane.
People who don't drive in a metro area and simplistically tell us to maintain the prescribed 2-second rule aren't in tough with reality.
If you are following a car so closely that you cant see what is ahead of it, then you are following too darn close. At least offset a little bit so you can see what is happening ahead of the car immediately in front of you.
Rather difficult to do when you don't own a truck, van, or SUV, which are 70% of the vehicles on my roads. 80% of my driving is done in heavy traffic with a low profile vehicle. Offsetting would bring me dangerously close to the left lane.
People who don't drive in a metro area and simplistically tell us to maintain the prescribed 2-second rule aren't in tough with reality.
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