Proletariat movers in Europe

Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
14,551
Location
Canuck - moved to —> California —> Texas —> ???
As a family of six, traveling abroad can be a challenge and I’ve rented these vans many times, mostly in the 9 people configuration.

The short review is that we are spoiled in America and should be glad we have so many choices here. When I see posts envying European vehicles I just roll my eyes sometimes.

Other than the utility, these vans are poor as a family vehicle. They can probably be configured to be more comfortable, but since they are essentially based on work vans, I highly doubt the difference is big between these configurations.

On to the more detailed review:

I got a Citroen Spacetourer this year which features a 2.0L turbo diesel engine and an 8speed DCT (I think) transmission. I looked up the price and they look to be around 40k Euros, which is a lot for such a poor product IMO.

The positives:
- huge amount of space. It easily fit six of us, six full size suitcases, six carryons, plus few backpacks and bags.
- quite comfortable ride when loaded
- respectable amount of power and torque from that little diesel engine.
- good all around visibility plus backup camera views and parking sensors.
- fairly maneuverable despite the size. I had no problem parallel parking in tight spots.
- I liked the electric steering wheel assist. It would be very light in parking spots or slow driving and tighten up considerably when cruising at higher speeds.
- start/stop was actually pretty good on this one. I actually left it on all the time.

The negatives:
- the 9 seat configuration lacks the recline feature with the exception of the driver’s seat and the passengers sit almost straight up. This is quite a huge negative since it is a good long distance cruiser.
- the engine is very buzzy when driving around town
- brakes felt very soft. No issues with performance but they felt like pressing into a sponge. The vehicle had 500 miles on the odo when I picked it up, so I don’t think it had air in the lines.
- the suspension, when unloaded, was very bouncy in the rear and unbalanced. I could feel the front and rear doing seesaw under certain conditions.
- in general the suspension didn’t feel stable when taking curves. It was easily upset by bumps.
- the brakes very grabby at slow speeds and the rears groaned when engaging/disengaging the electronic parking brake.
- the sliding door had trouble staying open when on an incline with the front facing down. It was very annoying.
- fuel economy was so, so. I averaged around 24mpg, based on the computer display over 1k miles I had it. I expected closer to 30mpg on this one. Not sure why Europeans play the silly diesel game when a gasoline engine could achieve similar numbers these days.
- the rear hatch door is huge and opens up. It requires a lot of clearance in the rear to open it up. They should’ve been split in two and open to the sides.
 
I think that there was an idea for a time that Diesel was less polluting.
 
Few Western European families of 6 exist, because of cost and no one has the home space. Average euro birth rate is around 1.5. You must have about 2.1 for population to remain flat.

I travelled around Europe on business years ago with a group of 6. We rented a passenger sprinter van. It was a giant PITA. Everything had to be carefully scrutinized ahead of time down to what hotel to stay in based on parking. We should have rented 2 sedans and split up.
 
As a family of six, traveling abroad can be a challenge and I’ve rented these vans many times, mostly in the 9 people configuration.

The short review is that we are spoiled in America and should be glad we have so many choices here. When I see posts envying European vehicles I just roll my eyes sometimes.

Other than the utility, these vans are poor as a family vehicle. They can probably be configured to be more comfortable, but since they are essentially based on work vans, I highly doubt the difference is big between these configurations.

On to the more detailed review:

I got a Citroen Spacetourer this year which features a 2.0L turbo diesel engine and an 8speed DCT (I think) transmission. I looked up the price and they look to be around 40k Euros, which is a lot for such a poor product IMO.

The positives:
- huge amount of space. It easily fit six of us, six full size suitcases, six carryons, plus few backpacks and bags.
- quite comfortable ride when loaded
- respectable amount of power and torque from that little diesel engine.
- good all around visibility plus backup camera views and parking sensors.
- fairly maneuverable despite the size. I had no problem parallel parking in tight spots.
- I liked the electric steering wheel assist. It would be very light in parking spots or slow driving and tighten up considerably when cruising at higher speeds.
- start/stop was actually pretty good on this one. I actually left it on all the time.

The negatives:
- the 9 seat configuration lacks the recline feature with the exception of the driver’s seat and the passengers sit almost straight up. This is quite a huge negative since it is a good long distance cruiser.
- the engine is very buzzy when driving around town
- brakes felt very soft. No issues with performance but they felt like pressing into a sponge. The vehicle had 500 miles on the odo when I picked it up, so I don’t think it had air in the lines.
- the suspension, when unloaded, was very bouncy in the rear and unbalanced. I could feel the front and rear doing seesaw under certain conditions.
- in general the suspension didn’t feel stable when taking curves. It was easily upset by bumps.
- the brakes very grabby at slow speeds and the rears groaned when engaging/disengaging the electronic parking brake.
- the sliding door had trouble staying open when on an incline with the front facing down. It was very annoying.
- fuel economy was so, so. I averaged around 24mpg, based on the computer display over 1k miles I had it. I expected closer to 30mpg on this one. Not sure why Europeans play the silly diesel game when a gasoline engine could achieve similar numbers these days.
- the rear hatch door is huge and opens up. It requires a lot of clearance in the rear to open it up. They should’ve been split in two and open to the sides.

Those are essentially goods vehicles fitted with seats, the non-people carrier version has split doors. Not the best choice for comfort.

Should easily do 30 mpg though, and get close to 40... I have a c4 picasso that does 56 mpg average (50 in winter). No, gasoline doesn't get close
 
You hired a van that had some seats put in the back. It's purpose it to be abused and to be durable.

You should have compared more to something like a Ford Galaxy.

I will say that fuel economy is poor. I've previously got 40-45mpg out of similar vehicles (usually MK7 Transits with a 2.2 diesel engine). Something isn't right there at all. Diesels always get better fuel economy than their equivalent petrol engines. After all diesel contains 15% more energy and diesel engines don't suffer with the same pumping losses you get in petrol engines.
 
Better MPG=less CO2 emissions. Diesels make up for it in other ways, though (SCR, DPF, urea, etc.).
I don't think diesels produce the components of smog in as large of quantity. That used to be the big issue because they didn't realize that the particulate and nox emissions from them were worse.
 
OMG, the European vehicles are small by design not bcs. they cannot make it bigger or better. You state “some envy European vehicles.” What does that mean?
Europe has far more urban cities. There is very simple reason for that. They decided to buitl HWY’s around cities, while we decided to built interstates through the cities, which destroyed urban fabric of cities and moved everyone to suburbs. Big roads, bog parking lots are very convenient, but came at price of living in the car.
Europeans use A LOT public transportation, gas/diesel is far more expensive etc.
So, WHY would one buy 8 seater van like let’s say Sienna in Europe? By European standards, even Camry is big vehicle.
However, as someone who owned there station wagons, I can tell you that once you have certain space at disposal, you adjust very fast to it. You would be surprised how much of stuff here that I carry is actually unnecessary.
But, if you really, REALLY need people mover, they have for you VW Transporter, MB Sprinter and some smaller MB’s that can fit 8-10 people.
 
As a family of six, traveling abroad can be a challenge and I’ve rented these vans many times, mostly in the 9 people configuration.

The short review is that we are spoiled in America and should be glad we have so many choices here. When I see posts envying European vehicles I just roll my eyes sometimes.

Other than the utility, these vans are poor as a family vehicle. They can probably be configured to be more comfortable, but since they are essentially based on work vans, I highly doubt the difference is big between these configurations.

On to the more detailed review:

I got a Citroen Spacetourer this year which features a 2.0L turbo diesel engine and an 8speed DCT (I think) transmission. I looked up the price and they look to be around 40k Euros, which is a lot for such a poor product IMO.

The positives:
- huge amount of space. It easily fit six of us, six full size suitcases, six carryons, plus few backpacks and bags.
- quite comfortable ride when loaded
- respectable amount of power and torque from that little diesel engine.
- good all around visibility plus backup camera views and parking sensors.
- fairly maneuverable despite the size. I had no problem parallel parking in tight spots.
- I liked the electric steering wheel assist. It would be very light in parking spots or slow driving and tighten up considerably when cruising at higher speeds.
- start/stop was actually pretty good on this one. I actually left it on all the time.

The negatives:
- the 9 seat configuration lacks the recline feature with the exception of the driver’s seat and the passengers sit almost straight up. This is quite a huge negative since it is a good long distance cruiser.
- the engine is very buzzy when driving around town
- brakes felt very soft. No issues with performance but they felt like pressing into a sponge. The vehicle had 500 miles on the odo when I picked it up, so I don’t think it had air in the lines.
- the suspension, when unloaded, was very bouncy in the rear and unbalanced. I could feel the front and rear doing seesaw under certain conditions.
- in general the suspension didn’t feel stable when taking curves. It was easily upset by bumps.
- the brakes very grabby at slow speeds and the rears groaned when engaging/disengaging the electronic parking brake.
- the sliding door had trouble staying open when on an incline with the front facing down. It was very annoying.
- fuel economy was so, so. I averaged around 24mpg, based on the computer display over 1k miles I had it. I expected closer to 30mpg on this one. Not sure why Europeans play the silly diesel game when a gasoline engine could achieve similar numbers these days.
- the rear hatch door is huge and opens up. It requires a lot of clearance in the rear to open it up. They should’ve been split in two and open to the sides.
Iirc diesel is taxed at a lower rate and vehicles are in part taxed by displacement.

Anyways, your experience mirrors.that of my own over 30 yrs ago when my family rented a VW diesel van with a manual transmission.

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/eu/gas-taxes-in-europe-2023/
 
Despite its many flaws, it is probably the best option for vacationing in Europe with a large family.

Here is the beast in question and how much luggage it can carry.
IMG_3852.webp

IMG_3855.webp
 
Back
Top Bottom