LE8130/10W-30, 5650 miles, 2000 Tundra V-8
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The frame is holding up well. This truck has had minimal exposure to road salt though. Tundra's of this vintage aren't doing so well up north though. Anyone looking to buy a used Tundra, or any truck for that matter needs to inspect the frame very closely.
I think I can get to 7500 mile OCI's based on UOA info, but I can't help but remember what it looked like when I looked under the valve cover back around sample F. There was a dark reddish/brown glaze (varnish?) covering the entire valvetrain. The valve cover wasn't too bad though. About a year or so later is when I decided to try ARX to get it cleaned up and fix the tranny (hard/violent random 2-3 shifts). That's one reason that I'm hesitant to extend the OCI's too much. I also like to change the oil and filter, so that doesn't help.
I think I can get to 7500 mile OCI's based on UOA info, but I can't help but remember what it looked like when I looked under the valve cover back around sample F. There was a dark reddish/brown glaze (varnish?) covering the entire valvetrain. The valve cover wasn't too bad though. About a year or so later is when I decided to try ARX to get it cleaned up and fix the tranny (hard/violent random 2-3 shifts). That's one reason that I'm hesitant to extend the OCI's too much. I also like to change the oil and filter, so that doesn't help.
Before the sample H (98K), what oils were you using and what was your change interval?
Mostly Pennzoil synthetic 5W-30 with 3K OCI's. But I can remember using M1, Valvoline synpower and Castrol Syntec on occassion too.
The first 5 oil changes were done free by the dealer (dino). I switched to Pennzoil synthetic at 17K.
I'm not sure what to make of all this. I hope I don't get in trouble, but Terry says this engine runs hot based on the data.
This engine doesn't consume any oil at all. It stays pegged on full throughout the OCI.
The first 5 oil changes were done free by the dealer (dino). I switched to Pennzoil synthetic at 17K.
I'm not sure what to make of all this. I hope I don't get in trouble, but Terry says this engine runs hot based on the data.
This engine doesn't consume any oil at all. It stays pegged on full throughout the OCI.
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Using those different synthetic oils since 17K, I don't understand the dark reddish/brown glaze (varnish?). That thing must run really run hot for that to happen.
If you look back to samples G and H, the oil was actually starting to thicken. The rest of them sheared, sometimes to a 20 grade. If I left them in longer, maybe they would have thickened too?
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That is generally the process. It shears to a point then it starts to thicken back up. That was one of the really bad things about the old 10W-40 back in the 70's and early 80's. To much VII shearing down quickly then thickening back up to a goo before it got changed. Engine design and to much heat is not a good thing for motor oil.
One other thing I remember about the oil before ARX...the oil on the dipstick never seemed to look dirty. It would be a darker amber color by the end of the OCI, but no real dirt or residue on the paper towel I would wipe the dipstick off with. It did look darker when I drained it from the drain plug, but not really bad at all.
I have noticed this on my Mom's Tundra as well. It has been run on a variety of synthetics as well. M1,PP,VS,RTS,Walmart Brand Synthic etc....... I see how dark it gets on the fill tube and on the dip stick. IF she where mine it would be ARX'ed and then a diet of either M1 0W40 or Redline 0W40.
I suspect that the engine runs at the proper temp propably on the cool side really. Have you ever tried to get the oil or ATF hot it takes some hard long driving to get the job done. So I would suspect thatthe realissue is that the trapped oil in the heads after shut down is heat soaking aka cooking after shut done.
Since their is no sludge rather just varnish as in oxidized oil I would use Lube Control instead of Auto-Rx. Auto-RX is not as good in my opinion for controlling the above situation as Lube COntrol is.Ask Terry what he thinks of useing Lube COntroll Instead of ARX for mantence?
I suspect that the engine runs at the proper temp propably on the cool side really. Have you ever tried to get the oil or ATF hot it takes some hard long driving to get the job done. So I would suspect thatthe realissue is that the trapped oil in the heads after shut down is heat soaking aka cooking after shut done.
Since their is no sludge rather just varnish as in oxidized oil I would use Lube Control instead of Auto-Rx. Auto-RX is not as good in my opinion for controlling the above situation as Lube COntrol is.Ask Terry what he thinks of useing Lube COntroll Instead of ARX for mantence?
Your theory makes sense to me JohnBrowning. You have to wait quite some time to get a good reading on the dipstick after shutdown. I believe the book even addresses this (wait at least 7 minutes after shutdown?). Because of this, I usually wait 30-60 minutes after shutdown to pull the drain plug on an oil change, and I usually let it drain for an hour or two. When I think of all the times I got the oil changed at a quick lube or dealership, I'm sure that the residual oil just remained in the galleries and heads cooking while they got me in and out in 30 minutes.
I probably never would have even suspected that there was varnish/presludge occurring until I pushed a PCV grommet through the valve cover while trying to replace it. I took it to my local shop to have them retrieve it for me by removing the valve cover. I didn't realize that there was a catch can under the cover for this exact malady. But it did give me an opportunity to see what was really going on inside the engine.
The ARX treatments seemed to be cleaning the varnish, because the clean phases turned the oil dark reddish brown very quickly. The rinse phases weren't so remarkable, but did turn blackish and thick like used oil should when you're done with it. Even with the maintenance doses, the oil changes and appearance of the oil on the dipstick makes me think there is a lot more cleaning going on now than before using ARX throughout the entire OCI.
Terry is a fan of both LC20 and ARX. I have not discussed varnish formation on this vehicle with him yet, but I probably should. I just thought that was all behind me now. At this point, he just wants to see how LE8130 does all by itself.
I probably never would have even suspected that there was varnish/presludge occurring until I pushed a PCV grommet through the valve cover while trying to replace it. I took it to my local shop to have them retrieve it for me by removing the valve cover. I didn't realize that there was a catch can under the cover for this exact malady. But it did give me an opportunity to see what was really going on inside the engine.
The ARX treatments seemed to be cleaning the varnish, because the clean phases turned the oil dark reddish brown very quickly. The rinse phases weren't so remarkable, but did turn blackish and thick like used oil should when you're done with it. Even with the maintenance doses, the oil changes and appearance of the oil on the dipstick makes me think there is a lot more cleaning going on now than before using ARX throughout the entire OCI.
Terry is a fan of both LC20 and ARX. I have not discussed varnish formation on this vehicle with him yet, but I probably should. I just thought that was all behind me now. At this point, he just wants to see how LE8130 does all by itself.
How long will it be before this LE only sample will be submitted to Terry? I would also be interested in seeing it compared to the previous LE sample and the VOA LE sample.
Probably late summer/early fall. I'll probably just add it to this post, in the format you requested.
How long will it be before this LE only sample will be submitted to Terry? I would also be interested in seeing it compared to the previous LE sample and the VOA LE sample.
Here you go Johnny.
This recent sample was taken on 6/20/2010. The only thing different from the last sample was there was no maintenance dose of ARX added. Driving was a mixed bag locally with no long trip to South Dakota this time.
Sample A is VOA of LE8130 by Blackstone.
Sample B is LE8130 without ARX 5074 miles/172,694 miles by Dyson.
Sample C is LE8130 with 3ozs ARX 5650/167,620 miles by Dyson Analysis.
Wear Metals A/B/C
Iron 2/5/5
Copper 0/4/4
Tin 0/0/0
Lead 0/3/3
Chrom 0/0/0
Nickel 0/0/0
Alum 0/0/0
Titan 0/0/0
Silver 0/0/0
Additive Metals
Calcium 972/918/921
Magnes 882/839/761
Zinc 1058/1184/1095
Phos 855/972/1036
Barium 0/0/0
Molyb 35/38/34
Antim NA/0/0
Boron 2/1/1
Sodium 1/21/24
Contaminate Metals
Silicon 4/13/8
Potass 1/0/0
Vanad NA/0/0
Physical and other tests
V40C NA/66.8/70.3
V100C 11.72/10.8/10.7
TAN NA/3.21/2.85
Flash 405F/290F/300F
Oxidation NA/28/28
Nitration NA/12/11
KF# NA/586/537
TBN 10.4/2.6/3.2
Fuel% NA/1.55/1.46
Soot NA/0/0
Glycol NA/0/0
VNDX NA/154/142
Sulfatebyprod NA/33/35
Here you go Johnny.
This recent sample was taken on 6/20/2010. The only thing different from the last sample was there was no maintenance dose of ARX added. Driving was a mixed bag locally with no long trip to South Dakota this time.
Sample A is VOA of LE8130 by Blackstone.
Sample B is LE8130 without ARX 5074 miles/172,694 miles by Dyson.
Sample C is LE8130 with 3ozs ARX 5650/167,620 miles by Dyson Analysis.
Wear Metals A/B/C
Iron 2/5/5
Copper 0/4/4
Tin 0/0/0
Lead 0/3/3
Chrom 0/0/0
Nickel 0/0/0
Alum 0/0/0
Titan 0/0/0
Silver 0/0/0
Additive Metals
Calcium 972/918/921
Magnes 882/839/761
Zinc 1058/1184/1095
Phos 855/972/1036
Barium 0/0/0
Molyb 35/38/34
Antim NA/0/0
Boron 2/1/1
Sodium 1/21/24
Contaminate Metals
Silicon 4/13/8
Potass 1/0/0
Vanad NA/0/0
Physical and other tests
V40C NA/66.8/70.3
V100C 11.72/10.8/10.7
TAN NA/3.21/2.85
Flash 405F/290F/300F
Oxidation NA/28/28
Nitration NA/12/11
KF# NA/586/537
TBN 10.4/2.6/3.2
Fuel% NA/1.55/1.46
Soot NA/0/0
Glycol NA/0/0
VNDX NA/154/142
Sulfatebyprod NA/33/35
Here is the latest UOA of 8130 at 183,443 miles. It was a 5612 mile OCI.
Some things I did to help lower fuel dilution were new spark plugs, different brand of air filter, and started using LE L-X 2300 as a fuel additive. The oil filter was P1 PL10241. Fuel was mostly Shell V-Power.
The test was done by Dyson Analysis.
Category/UOA
Iron/6
Copper/5
Tin/0
Lead/7
Chrom/0
Nickel/0
Alum/0
Titan/0
Silver/0
Calcium/897
Magnesium/782
Zinc/1122
Phosphorus/1010
Barium/1
Molyb/32
Antimony/0
Silicon/8
Sodium/13
Boron/0
Potassium/0
Vanadium/0
V40C/79.4
V100C/11.4
TAN/3.52
Flash/390
Oxidation/18
Nitration/11
KF#/457
TBN/3.0
Fuel%/0.38
Soot/0
Glycol/0
vndx/136
Sulfate by-product/26
I'm absolutely ecstatic about the drop in Fuel% this time. The past 3 UOA's by Dyson showed 1.55%, 1.46% and 1.46%. It's possible that the new AF and plugs helped, but they never have in the past.
The big helper here has to be L-X 2300. I'm watching the rise in Pb though. This happened in the past when I used to use Techron Concentrate and Chevron Supreme fuel. The Pb rise could be from the ample (gobs) of copper anti-seize I put on the spark plug threads. I don't see lead on the MSDS though.
Here is a link to L-X 2300:
http://www.le-inc.com/products/documents/2300_flyer.pdf
I don't have a VOA for this batch of 8130, so I didn't list it.
Some things I did to help lower fuel dilution were new spark plugs, different brand of air filter, and started using LE L-X 2300 as a fuel additive. The oil filter was P1 PL10241. Fuel was mostly Shell V-Power.
The test was done by Dyson Analysis.
Category/UOA
Iron/6
Copper/5
Tin/0
Lead/7
Chrom/0
Nickel/0
Alum/0
Titan/0
Silver/0
Calcium/897
Magnesium/782
Zinc/1122
Phosphorus/1010
Barium/1
Molyb/32
Antimony/0
Silicon/8
Sodium/13
Boron/0
Potassium/0
Vanadium/0
V40C/79.4
V100C/11.4
TAN/3.52
Flash/390
Oxidation/18
Nitration/11
KF#/457
TBN/3.0
Fuel%/0.38
Soot/0
Glycol/0
vndx/136
Sulfate by-product/26
I'm absolutely ecstatic about the drop in Fuel% this time. The past 3 UOA's by Dyson showed 1.55%, 1.46% and 1.46%. It's possible that the new AF and plugs helped, but they never have in the past.
The big helper here has to be L-X 2300. I'm watching the rise in Pb though. This happened in the past when I used to use Techron Concentrate and Chevron Supreme fuel. The Pb rise could be from the ample (gobs) of copper anti-seize I put on the spark plug threads. I don't see lead on the MSDS though.
Here is a link to L-X 2300:
http://www.le-inc.com/products/documents/2300_flyer.pdf
I don't have a VOA for this batch of 8130, so I didn't list it.
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If I were you, I would apply for an assistant service writer job at a Toyota dealership. I think that's your calling.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Save that uoa and additive money,and run the oem AF. Change the oil every 5k. Nothing wrong with M1 EP and an M1 filter for $35 at an auto parts store.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Save that uoa and additive money,and run the oem AF. Change the oil every 5k. Nothing wrong with M1 EP and an M1 filter for $35 at an auto parts store.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Save that uoa and additive money,and run the oem AF. Change the oil every 5k. Nothing wrong with M1 EP and an M1 filter for $35 at an auto parts store.
Well since you brought up the point ,,,, 10,000 miles on any of the oils[ what do we not really understand about modern premium oils] used would make the most sense. Here we have a whole bunch of money being spent for little in return except to Terry and the oil companies. But then it is not my money.
Save that uoa and additive money,and run the oem AF. Change the oil every 5k. Nothing wrong with M1 EP and an M1 filter for $35 at an auto parts store.
Well since you brought up the point ,,,, 10,000 miles on any of the oils[ what do we not really understand about modern premium oils] used would make the most sense. Here we have a whole bunch of money being spent for little in return except to Terry and the oil companies. But then it is not my money.
I'll post this since I do not have any interest in selling syn oils or consider myself brand fanatic or the need to belong to a team since this info is never on the internet postings. If an oil keeps the parts seperated and the additives are enough to do the job during the oil change interval and the type of operation. Going to a super duper syn base stock and double the add package will not make any difference because the extra is of no advantage. Now if the operation usually cold or heat, increased pressure on the components or extended oil change intervals .The premium oils will show their advantage.
There was a time when a handful of people on here liked when I posted my results. I guess I miscalculated this time. I won't make that mistake again. Sorry for taking up your time with these reports.
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