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As long as its synthetic, use whatever you want. 5w30 standardized stash is fine.
Late Model Corolla 1.8L 0W20 Or Thicker OK ?
- Thread starter ChrisD46
- Start date
So , no special reason to use 0W20 oil - except for CAFE in the USA in a 2020 Toyota Corolla 1.8L PFI (non turbo) engine ... No mythical "too small oil galleys - must use 0W20" either ... I want to see 300K miles+ out of this 2020 Corolla 1.8L PFI engine , so if 5W30 is allowed in Oz for this engine - then I should be able to use 5W30 in the USA with my temps never getting down to nowhere near 0 degrees F .
MOFT protects, not damages. Keeping parts separated is one of the keys to longevity.
And an oil with a 5W winter rating is good down to about -30 or so.
In the 2020 Toyota Corolla OM it states that : "0W20 MUST be used - if 5W20 is used change back to 0W20 ASAP for next oil change ... Is that because the CAFE police could make an unexpected visit (lol !) ? If there are no engine limiting design issues with the 2020 Toyota 1.8L PFI non-turbo engine using a thicker oil - then what harm would there be to run y a Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 which is on the thinner side for a 30W oil to begin with ?
It's like déjà vu all over again.
My daughter bought a 2013 with 1.8L a few years ago. It had about 185k miles at the time, north of 225k now.
PO used Valvoline full syn 0W20, so that is what I put in at first OCI. It burned a lot of oil.
I switched to 5W30 and now maybe use 1/2 Qt in a 5k OCI.
No detectible difference in performance, mileage, etc.
PO used Valvoline full syn 0W20, so that is what I put in at first OCI. It burned a lot of oil.
I switched to 5W30 and now maybe use 1/2 Qt in a 5k OCI.
No detectible difference in performance, mileage, etc.
Use what the book says to use. Wife has a motor that calls for 0W-20, for fun ran 5W-30 in it for an oil change (hot Florida climate) and it ran like a dog, felt like it literally lost 30hp. Not to mention parts like cam phasers, bearing clearances, variable pumps, CPU programming (can vary by country region), etc are designed to work as a package with the spec'd oil.
I can tell you on Toyota's Dynamic Force engines (spec'd for 0W-16) have higher measured oil temps when you run them with thicker oils, 0W-16 ran cooler than 0W-20, 5W-20, and 5W-30...temps rose progressively. Those engines also have a variable speed electric oil pump that I believe puts out ~20 psi mid throttle and as low as ~8 psi. The days of 60+ psi are pretty much gone almost across the board in recent production vehicles. Even in the race engine building world we are working with lower oil pressures and 20W oils on engines that have to last multiple races.
Research is now moving to "oil misting" designs. In the future the debate may be which oil misting nozzles are best.
I can tell you on Toyota's Dynamic Force engines (spec'd for 0W-16) have higher measured oil temps when you run them with thicker oils, 0W-16 ran cooler than 0W-20, 5W-20, and 5W-30...temps rose progressively. Those engines also have a variable speed electric oil pump that I believe puts out ~20 psi mid throttle and as low as ~8 psi. The days of 60+ psi are pretty much gone almost across the board in recent production vehicles. Even in the race engine building world we are working with lower oil pressures and 20W oils on engines that have to last multiple races.
Research is now moving to "oil misting" designs. In the future the debate may be which oil misting nozzles are best.
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Engines can be designed to expect a certain viscosity at a given temperature (infer viscosity from oil pressure @ oil temperature) but can't be designed to only use a certain viscosity because of the impact temperature has on viscosity, which is the single largest factor in determining operational viscosity.
Engines designed to accommodate an HTHS below 2.6cP typically have different (wider) bearing designs. That said, most modern engines have coolant/oil heat exchangers, so oil temperature should be pretty consistent regardless of viscosity.
No, the oil pump is not electric. the oil pump has an electric solenoid on it that changes the maximum pump pressure depending on how the engine is being operated. It's otherwise just a normal chain-driven positive displacement gear-style pump. There's a thread that gets into the details of the design on here somewhere.
Not sure how far that will go given the push to EV's.
The OM on my ‘07 Corolla states “5W30 only”, but Toyota has back specced it to as thin as 0W20… I’m running M1 HM 5W20 from my sizable ecobox stash, and it hasn’t burned any in the first 1000 miles it’s been in. I can’t see running 0W20 in it, one tankful has already topped 35 MPG highway (on winter fuel), I think I can top 40 when spring (& non-winter tire) time arrives. 165K now, other than needing a clutch, it’s been cooking right along. Unlike the xB, having diff bearing issues in the transaxle, looking for another one…
Yep that garbage again. The fallacy seems to get trotted out when trying to make the equally fallacious argument that an engine “requires” a certain low-viscosity oil or that it was somehow “designed” for it. As you note above engines may have design considerations that allow them to tolerate thinner oils but those do not preclude the use of thicker ones.
That’s just silly. You have no clue what you’re talking about. If the oil was that much thicker at operating temperature then the oil was mislabeled.
And ECM programming to preclude the use of thicker oils? Another bunch of silliness for which you have no evidence.
People post ridiculous statements as if they are established fact when they are instead fabrications.
There were differences above 10* on this specific engine. And this specific engine configuration did not come with an oil cooler standard. iir Toyota factory installs a small German box can style oil cooler on the TRD Off-Road model when using the Dynamic Force 2.5. Electronically valved would of been a better term for me to use. And don't talk to me about bearing tolerances, your 'read only' experience (or lack of) shows.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Yeah, if you are going to cop an attitude and don't know the difference between clearances and tolerances I don't think there's much point in us having any further discussion on the matter.
You should.
5W-30 across the board and don't look back.
Your engine will love you for it, especially when it gets a little longer in the tooth and the tolerances widen.
20 weight is pee-water...
Most people on this forum have used 20 weight oil for decades with no issues.
That being said, 0W-20 has HTHS=2.6 when new, which is the borderline of adequate protection.
As 0W-20 ages during an oil change interval, it sheers down to about HTHS = 2.3, which exponentially increases engine wear
(do a google search for HTHS wear graph to see for yourself).
To seek clarity, seek out an owner's manual for your specific year/model on the internet from either Europe or Australia.
Nearly all engines speced for 0W-20 or 0W-16 or 0W-8 in the US are speced for 5W-30 in Europe / Australia.
In the US, the Toyota owner's manual writers can't specify 5W-30, as it would cost Toyota millions of dollars in CAFE fines.
But in Europe and Australia, where CAFE fines doesn't exist, the same cars are speced for 5W-30.
As engine temperatures rise, oil gets thinner. So if you start out with a thin oil to begin with (like 20 weight oil),
and you are going up long inclines with a fully loaded vehicle, the temperatures around the engine bearings may heat up to 150C
even though the average coolant temperature is 100C. A 20 weight oil will get even thinner, with HTHS dropping below the safety point of 2.6.
Personally, I own 4 vehicles which are speced for 20 weight oils, but I only use a thick 5W-30 in them and have been doing so with no issues.
I've noticed a trend where many automakers recommend 5W-30 for their heavy duty or high performance engines, and spec 5W-20/0W-20 for their lighter duty engines (Ex: Ford), that tells me that companies like Ford don't trust 20 weight oils for heavy duty use, so neither will I.
If 20 weight oil was that good, Ford would use it for all their new vehicles. But they don't.
It's honestly your choice, as you are the car owner. You have the freedom to make your own educated decision.
That being said, 0W-20 has HTHS=2.6 when new, which is the borderline of adequate protection.
As 0W-20 ages during an oil change interval, it sheers down to about HTHS = 2.3, which exponentially increases engine wear
(do a google search for HTHS wear graph to see for yourself).
To seek clarity, seek out an owner's manual for your specific year/model on the internet from either Europe or Australia.
Nearly all engines speced for 0W-20 or 0W-16 or 0W-8 in the US are speced for 5W-30 in Europe / Australia.
In the US, the Toyota owner's manual writers can't specify 5W-30, as it would cost Toyota millions of dollars in CAFE fines.
But in Europe and Australia, where CAFE fines doesn't exist, the same cars are speced for 5W-30.
As engine temperatures rise, oil gets thinner. So if you start out with a thin oil to begin with (like 20 weight oil),
and you are going up long inclines with a fully loaded vehicle, the temperatures around the engine bearings may heat up to 150C
even though the average coolant temperature is 100C. A 20 weight oil will get even thinner, with HTHS dropping below the safety point of 2.6.
Personally, I own 4 vehicles which are speced for 20 weight oils, but I only use a thick 5W-30 in them and have been doing so with no issues.
I've noticed a trend where many automakers recommend 5W-30 for their heavy duty or high performance engines, and spec 5W-20/0W-20 for their lighter duty engines (Ex: Ford), that tells me that companies like Ford don't trust 20 weight oils for heavy duty use, so neither will I.
If 20 weight oil was that good, Ford would use it for all their new vehicles. But they don't.
It's honestly your choice, as you are the car owner. You have the freedom to make your own educated decision.
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Very reasonable , valid points - as an experiment the Toyota 1.8L will get Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 (on the thin side for a 30W) and see how the engine performs over the usual OCI .
