Large leak path in Toyota OEM filters?

[Hatsuwr]

Just saw this video from Whip City:


It looks like there is a very large gap between the metal core and the filter elements, and I don't see how the ADBV and (especially) the bypass are going to seal that gap. Could explain the poor particle capture results from the Brand Ranks test:

 

[Rand]

Interesting.


Although I wouldn't have ragged on the ac delco for no bypass without checking that the filter they used needed a bypass.
seems shoddy research for an engineer.

 

[ZeeOSix]

t looks like there is a very large gap between the metal core and the filter elements, and I don't see how the ADBV and (especially) the bypass are going to seal that gap.

The leaf spring and ADBV seal on that clear hard ring on each end cap. You could take the center tube out if the media could take all the compressive and dP force by itself, and the leaf spring and ADBV would still be sealing around the hole on each end cap. The center tube is there to take the compressive force of the leaf spring and to support the media from flow dP.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Could explain the poor particle capture results from the Brand Ranks test:

Or this could explain it. Yes, it's old data, but I've never seen anything else that says the Toyota filters are more efficient than this. And BR's testing seems to say the same thing.

 

[Hatsuwr]

The leaf spring and ADBV seal on that clear hard ring on each end cap. You could take the center tube out if the media could take all the compressive and dP force by itself, and the leaf spring and ADBV would still be sealing around the hole on each end cap. The center tube is there to take the compressive force of the leaf spring and to support the media from flow dP.

I see what they are going for, but it doesn't seem like it's going to be effective. Hard to say definitively just from the video, but here are a couple screenshots that show my main area of concern. I'm going to pick one up for myself though and cut a window in the top so I can see what it looks like while fully assembled. Will post results here!

 

[ZeeOSix]

I see what they are going for, but it doesn't seem like it's going to be effective. Hard to say definitively just from the video, but here are a couple screenshots that show my main area of concern. I'm going to pick one up for myself though and cut a window in the top so I can see what it looks like while fully assembled. Will post results here!

View attachment 248975

If the leaf spring seals well on the amber resin ring around the center tube hole, then that's the seal design. That's what the amber resin ring is designed for. In the video, it looks like the leaf spring sealing area is at least smooth.

 

[Hatsuwr]

If the leaf spring seals well on the amber resin ring around the center tube hole, then that's the seal design. That's what the amber resin ring is designed for. In the video, it looks like the leaf spring sealing area is at least smooth.

Yup, I agree. We'll see! I might be able to make it to the dealership tomorrow.

 

[ATex7239]

Or this could explain it. Yes, it's old data, but I've never seen anything else that says the Toyota filters are more efficient than this. And BR's testing seems to say the same thing.

View attachment 248974

Instead of running the smaller low efficiency Toyota filter I think everyone should run the larger… low efficiency Toyota filter.

 

[bullwinkle]

The 1.5 isn’t the best engine to test filter efficiency on-literally ALL the debris I’ve seen on the filters I’ve cut open combined over the last 100K miles (from the xB in my sig) wouldn’t add up to the debris found in ONE of the filters from my Express!

 

[jim302]

The flashlight test video has been posted...

 

[Glenda W.]

The flashlight test video has been posted...

Looks like a fail to me…..

 

[ATex7239]

Looks like a fail to me…..

I’m no filter design expert by any means but does light equal leaking in this case? Pressure can certainly be designed to seal components in other applications. Light and fluid do not always correlate in my experience. Especially to the naked eye. Just a thought.

 

[Fair enough]

I have been seeing this ever since he started testing with flashlight. It depends on how smooth the resin is. They leak and the spring is smoother on the ones I looked at.
He also should do a burn test on the D3. The ones with shiny adbv are silicone and have ars logo on them. Not sure of the dull black adbv with no ars logo.

 

[Hatsuwr]

I’m no filter design expert by any means but does light equal leaking in this case? Pressure can certainly be designed to seal components in other applications. Light and fluid do not always correlate in my experience. Especially to the naked eye. Just a thought.

He should also be pushing on the parts of the leak spring that contact the back of the case, not on the bypass valve itself. But to me it looks like it would leak regardless.

 

[Glenda W.]

I’m no filter design expert by any means but does light equal leaking in this case? Pressure can certainly be designed to seal components in other applications. Light and fluid do not always correlate in my experience. Especially to the naked eye. Just a thought.

I have no idea in this case. But in the case of the Endurance pressure makes no difference and oil flows right through the gaps.

 

[Lockasiam]

Or this could explain it. Yes, it's old data, but I've never seen anything else that says the Toyota filters are more efficient than this. And BR's testing seems to say the same thing.

View attachment 248974

Why is Honda lower too?

 

[Joenpb]

Stay away from leaf spring bypass valve oil filters. Even if you have a good one now, it's unlikely it'll stay that way over time with subsequent filters.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Why is Honda lower too?

Probably because Honda recommends the oil filter only be changed ever other OCI in some use conditions (the "A/B" maintenance schedule). If a filter isn't very high efficiency and has a relatively low holding capacity, then a lower efficiency means it can be ran longer before clogging up.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Stay away from leaf spring bypass valve oil filters. Even if you have a good one now, it's unlikely it'll stay that way over time with subsequent filters.

Unless it has fiber end caps, which will seal a rippled leaf spring mating interface. Nobody uses a fiber sealing ring in the metal end cap anymore like the OG Ultra and Titanium had.

 

[Fair enough]

The Toyota leak springs are not rippled, the ones I have seen. Looking at mine more, the center tube on the newer filters is right at the top of the resin seal. If they cut a mm off, the leak spring would press harder on the resin. The resin seems very hard too, and can have bumps. Bumps destroy the seal.