Lake Speed jr. Thick vs. Thin video.

[DirectRejection]

This is right there with "remove the factory fill at 400 miles."

Hopefully everyone runs their engine for a few minutes before changing the oil.

Therefore, there is a thin, protective coating remaining on engine parts immediately after draining.

I am not gonna prefill the oil filter...not gonna do it...nope.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Do I understand this correctly?

Not pre-filling the filter and using a thinner oil, results in more water in the crankcase plus much more engine wear and with thicker oil it's all good without a pre-fill? And a few UOA revealed all this? And the wear is significant or alarming?

Could be that the oil film from thicker oil may last longer between moving parts before the oiling system is brought back to full flow with the engine started with an empty filter.

Also I was recently reading something on this site against oil filter pre-fill. I may have to search for it. Something about pressure build up, etc. Maybe z can answer. Sounds like a no-win scenario.

Think you're talking about the discussion that starting an engine with an empty oil filter is going to cause the filter's bypass to open vs it being pre-filled and starting the engine. I tried to explain that the dP across the filter that makes the filter bypass valve open is not any different if the filter is empty or pre-filled. That's because the oil pump volume sent down stream is the same because a PD oil pump volume output is only a function of the engine RPM. The startup RPM is the same regardless if the oil filter is empty or completely full of oil.

 

[ZeeOSix]

That makes no sense. If there are dangerous contaminants in that new oil that you are putting in the filter, then what about the fact that you are pouring that same oil right into your crankcase?

Theoretically, that oil would go through the full-flow oil filter first before going to the bearings like it would right out of a pre-filled filter. Edit - Looks like others petty much said similar.

 

[OilUzer]

Could be that the oil film from thicker oil may last longer between moving parts before the oiling system is brought back to full flow with the engine started with an empty filter.

Maybe that's why Japaneese car manufacturers like moly and I like it too, makes the engine sound smooooth. lol oh no, we don't want to change the subject now.

Thanks for the dP explanation!

 

[OilUzer]

Think you're talking about the discussion that starting an engine with an empty oil filter is going to cause the filter's bypass to open vs it being pre-filled and starting the engine. I tried to explain that the dP across the filter that makes the filter bypass valve open is not any different if the filter is empty or pre-filled. That's because the oil pump volume sent down stream is the same because a PD oil pump volume output is only a function of the engine RPM. The startup RPM is the same regardless if the oil filter is empty or completely full of oil.

Just recalled something about the pump having to push out the air first (this is after oil drain) vs. pushing out air and oil (if pre-filled) ... not that any of this has any major significance but what's the story with that dP wise?

Thanks!

 

[ZeeOSix]

Just recalled something about the pump having to push out the air first (this is after oil drain) vs. pushing out air and oil (if pre-filled) ... not that any of this has any major significance but what's the story with that dP wise?

Thanks!

The dP across the filter media, which the bypass valve operates on, is going to be the same when the oil goes through the media, regardless if the oil filter was empty or completely full of oil. The flow rate of the oil is based on the pump output per rev, and the RPM of the engine. The pump should not be hitting pressure relief if the oil isn't too cold and the startup idle RPM is pretty low. Same goes for when you start a cold engine with the oil filter completely full of oil, like done every day after an oil and filter change.

If only air is pushed through the media (ie, the filter installed dry), the dP across the media is minuscule because the viscosity of air is minuscule. As the oil starts hitting the media, the dP will start increasing to the level it would be if the filter was completely full of oil and flowing he same volume of oil.

 

[Thermo1223]

Flood mode? I've never prefilled any oil filter in my life.



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Clear Flood mode to prefill your oil filter is no better and probably worse than just starting it up. You are spinning the thing at 200rpms or so for at least 5 secs just to wait for the minimum pressure light to go off. Man people will believe anything.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

On traditional top oiler V8 possibly it may be preferable to not have a slug of air going to the cam bearing and then on to the hydraulic lifters. Some are just waiting to collapse and stay stuck. But. maybe the air would dump out of the cam bearing first.

long ago I never prefilled a spark engine canister or spin-on that I can recall - that's if I remember anything from 50 some odd year ago!

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Clear Flood mode to prefill your oil filter is no better and probably worse than just starting it up. You are spinning the thing at 200rpms or so for at least 5 secs just to wait for the minimum pressure light to go off. Man people will believe anything.

I have never used this mode - I may have tried it years ago and my car started and revved up, LOL.

I do feel you line of reasoning needs more muscle on the bones. I could counter that there is no fuel wash on the cyl walls, no piston cocking, no high immediate piston speed on a no-start crank. Crankshaft journals are highly polished, have little clearance and also have oil retained in them. The piston-to-wall have oil retain on them. Most skirts are plasma moly coated.

Any thoughts on this? or likely doesn't matter on wit!

 

[loneryder]

In before someone complains about how LSJR looks/talks/everything...opps too late!

He seems to trigger some people.

 

[TiGeo]

He seems to trigger some people.

I know which is silly to me, dude has a channel with some good oil content, what else do people that aren't willing to put themselves out there and do it themselves want?

 

[ltslimjim]

Clear Flood mode to prefill your oil filter is no better and probably worse than just starting it up. You are spinning the thing at 200rpms or so for at least 5 secs just to wait for the minimum pressure light to go off. Man people will believe anything.

I agree. Either pre-fill or don’t. Not the first time I’ve heard him say or seen him type something simply not true. Buddy is an Amsoil hater apparently? As he commented on one of LSJR’s videos on PUP, of which commenters were raving it was amazing and “almost beat Amsoil” off the Project Farm “oil testing”. All from his experience running Amsoil 18,000 miles and saying it was varnished basically (orange pumpkin?) with a ticking sound at the end of that interval. So, someone blindly extends an interval, isn’t using SS based on the MSDS he cites; spouting this nonsense:

 

[ctechbob]

I agree. Either pre-fill or don’t. Not the first time I’ve heard him say or seen him type something simply not true. Buddy is an Amsoil hater apparently? As he commented on one of LSJR’s videos on PUP, of which commenters were raving it was amazing and “almost beat Amsoil” off the Project Farm “oil testing”. All from his experience running Amsoil 18,000 miles and saying it was varnished basically (orange pumpkin?) with a ticking sound at the end of that interval. So, someone blindly extends an interval, isn’t using SS based on the MSDS he cites; spouting this nonsense:View attachment 224754

View attachment 224759

Lol, FordBossMe is down there below PF on my list of people to take serious advice from.

 

[buster]

He refuses to learn and just spews nonsense. He still looks at VOAs and determines quality based on additive levels.

 

[OilUzer]

If you had to choose between filter pre-fill or shaking the jug, which one would you choose?

Last time I shook the jug, I made sure no one is watching. Not kidding!

 

[wemay]

He refuses to learn and just spews nonsense. He still looks at VOAs and determines quality based on additive levels.

...and does so with such an air of authority in the matter.

 

[4WD]

He refuses to learn and just spews nonsense. He still looks at VOAs and determines quality based on additive levels.

MACT mentors him

 

[Accent Abuser]

I've come to appreciate his videos. Something he did not address, this brings to mind the recent Toyota engine failures, where a single main bearing and its adjacent connecting rod seems to starve for oil. Ultra low viscosity oil does flow out of any escape faster (anything provided with oil pressure that has flow) and may not reach the far end or highest point, under low RPM (or low oil pump flow) conditions. Especially when some wear and therefore faster flow, sets in.

Also, while UOA results are great for troubleshooting and monitoring, they really don't reflect wear rates. Physical measurement is required. Some time back, I tried ultra thin oil in a high performance 4 cylinder, in an attempt at more HP. What I got was 250ppm Pb from the bearings. Which was one of many factors in deciding to perform an overhaul. The bearings were visibly fine. My point, clearly there was a much higher level of nano particulate lead. But there was no visible bearing damage.

On my aircraft engine, I pull oil pressure from the front end (front of the engine) of the oil gallery. It reads as much as 10PSI lower here than it does at the feed point (on the back of the engine) . Yeah, I know what you are thinking, the oil pressure should be the same everywhere. But this situation is well established, and the farthest point is the best place to measure pressure.

People forget faster flow=faster flow out of bearings, this is just further demonstrated in the wear test with a dry start (unprimed filter) in this video, it seems counterintuitive, but higher viscosity provides insurance against oil starvation.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

People forget faster flow=faster flow out of bearings, this is just further demonstrated in the wear test with a dry start (unprimed filter) in this video, it seems counterintuitive, but higher viscosity provides insurance against oil starvation.

Wouldn't this be even more true if the oil pump mapping as well as bearing clearances weren't suitable for the grade in question?

 

[RDY4WAR]

I agree. Either pre-fill or don’t. Not the first time I’ve heard him say or seen him type something simply not true. Buddy is an Amsoil hater apparently? As he commented on one of LSJR’s videos on PUP, of which commenters were raving it was amazing and “almost beat Amsoil” off the Project Farm “oil testing”. All from his experience running Amsoil 18,000 miles and saying it was varnished basically (orange pumpkin?) with a ticking sound at the end of that interval. So, someone blindly extends an interval, isn’t using SS based on the MSDS he cites; spouting this nonsense:View attachment 224754

View attachment 224759

That made my head hurt.