I dont know the oil temp but you can see the external oil cooler on our 25hp kohler command pro and the remote filter.
Kohler oil temps.
- Thread starter Septor
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The amount of load on an engine has much to do with the temps of the oil. A hdeo oil syn or dino is a good choice.
JTK
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Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
I dont know the oil temp but you can see the external oil cooler on our 25hp kohler command pro and the remote filter.
That's a pretty ZTR! You'd probably have to pull a rear wheel to access that OF had they not done that. OT, but I've got the itch in the worst way to sell my Cub 2544 for a new Cub Z-Force ZTR.
Joel
I dont know the oil temp but you can see the external oil cooler on our 25hp kohler command pro and the remote filter.
That's a pretty ZTR! You'd probably have to pull a rear wheel to access that OF had they not done that. OT, but I've got the itch in the worst way to sell my Cub 2544 for a new Cub Z-Force ZTR.
Joel
Scroll to the bottom of the page(#2)shows my oil temps on my single cyl,i though they would have been higher.
i know it's not a Kohler but maybe interesting to some.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/gauge-install.113923/
i know it's not a Kohler but maybe interesting to some.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/gauge-install.113923/
We have a fleet of Cushman Trucksters at work, most with Kohler Command. They're maintained with bulk oil at 200 hr intervals. They tend to make to about 6-7000 hours before they blow up.
Originally Posted By: Septor
OK Guys:
I just spoke with a real, live Kohler Engine Tech and he informed me that 280-290 is "normal" for the CV730S 25 HP engine and will see temps up to 310!
Guess I will let er rip and stop the worrying.
Thanks All
Dang! synthetic all the way then!
OK Guys:
I just spoke with a real, live Kohler Engine Tech and he informed me that 280-290 is "normal" for the CV730S 25 HP engine and will see temps up to 310!
Guess I will let er rip and stop the worrying.
Thanks All
Dang! synthetic all the way then!
Right but thats where synthetics shine with high oil temps,you'll be fine i use Amsoil ACD 10w30/SAE30W and it does fine no problems in 200hrs of run time.
JTK
$100 Site Donor 2025
I sure as heck wouldn't want a generic 10w30 in there with oil temps @ 310F. As far as I know all Kohler specs is conventional 10w30. They're ALWAYS going to recommend that because it's a viscosity range that offers basic coverage under all conditions.
Joel
Joel
Well, i just changed my Kohler CH20 oil to M1 5w40 from the 15w40 that had been in there since last summer. Im thinking ill probably stick to this oil or maybe M1 MX4 motorcycle , or racing oil. Im having a hard time making my mind up. When i read about M1s racing oil, it sounds perfect for small engines unless im over looking something.
Originally Posted By: Septor
OK Guys:
I just spoke with a real, live Kohler Engine Tech and he informed me that 280-290 is "normal" for the CV730S 25 HP engine and will see temps up to 310!
Guess I will let er rip and stop the worrying.
Thanks All
If this is true, then I wonder why Kohler recommends using their own dino HDEO 10w30 oil instead of a synthetic. I thought that dino oils didn't hold up well to temps. above 250F?
Something doesn't add up here.
OK Guys:
I just spoke with a real, live Kohler Engine Tech and he informed me that 280-290 is "normal" for the CV730S 25 HP engine and will see temps up to 310!
Guess I will let er rip and stop the worrying.
Thanks All
If this is true, then I wonder why Kohler recommends using their own dino HDEO 10w30 oil instead of a synthetic. I thought that dino oils didn't hold up well to temps. above 250F?
Something doesn't add up here.
Originally Posted By: boraticus
It's important to keep the cooling fins and engine cowling free of dirt and debris. With any grass cutting equipment, it's inevitable that grass clippings will be pulled into the engine compartment or cowling. Each spring, I do a thorough inspection and blow everything out with compressed air. It's surprising how much grass can accumulate in and around the engine's cooling system.
Thanks for the reminder. Guess what I'll be doing Monday...
It's important to keep the cooling fins and engine cowling free of dirt and debris. With any grass cutting equipment, it's inevitable that grass clippings will be pulled into the engine compartment or cowling. Each spring, I do a thorough inspection and blow everything out with compressed air. It's surprising how much grass can accumulate in and around the engine's cooling system.
Thanks for the reminder. Guess what I'll be doing Monday...
And always make sure your @ full throttle wile mowing.
"I thought that dino oils didn't hold up well to temps. Above 250F? Something doesn't add up here."
It's not that dino oils don't hold up at those temps ... they will go higher than that ... but they thin out more and I'm not confident of their viscosity index improvers to function for long at those temps (shearing down likely).
Remember, The Kohler guy (where did you find a real, live, on-line Kohler tech???) is giving generic advice for the engine in a generic climate, in a generic application. You CAN do better than this advice if you apply what you've learned on this site.
Mowing thick grass in the southern half of North America? I'd go with an XW-40 ... 15W-40 conventional if the engine has no filter as you'll want to change it frequently. Go with a 5W-40 synthetic if you want better flow at start-up and the engine has a filter making frequent oil change unnecessary.
"We have a fleet of Cushman Trucksters at work, most with Kohler Command. They're maintained with bulk oil at 200 hr intervals. They tend to make to about 6-7000 hours before they blow up."
Interesting. The Cushman vehicles are kinda neat ... impossibly geeky. They are often used in sporadic bursts, however, unlike OPE that is run under load for hours at a time (mowers, pumps, generators, etc ...). Also, what is the power like at the 3-4,000 mark? Those of us that over-maintain our machinery do not do it so it merely survives to the 6-7,000 hour mark ... but we do it so the engine is still strong throughout its life.
It's not that dino oils don't hold up at those temps ... they will go higher than that ... but they thin out more and I'm not confident of their viscosity index improvers to function for long at those temps (shearing down likely).
Remember, The Kohler guy (where did you find a real, live, on-line Kohler tech???) is giving generic advice for the engine in a generic climate, in a generic application. You CAN do better than this advice if you apply what you've learned on this site.
Mowing thick grass in the southern half of North America? I'd go with an XW-40 ... 15W-40 conventional if the engine has no filter as you'll want to change it frequently. Go with a 5W-40 synthetic if you want better flow at start-up and the engine has a filter making frequent oil change unnecessary.
"We have a fleet of Cushman Trucksters at work, most with Kohler Command. They're maintained with bulk oil at 200 hr intervals. They tend to make to about 6-7000 hours before they blow up."
Interesting. The Cushman vehicles are kinda neat ... impossibly geeky. They are often used in sporadic bursts, however, unlike OPE that is run under load for hours at a time (mowers, pumps, generators, etc ...). Also, what is the power like at the 3-4,000 mark? Those of us that over-maintain our machinery do not do it so it merely survives to the 6-7,000 hour mark ... but we do it so the engine is still strong throughout its life.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/475/oil-breakdown
http://www.midtownoil.com/downloads/What Is Oxidation In Lubricating Oil.pdf
general rule is oxidation doubles for every 10 deg C rise in temperature for mineral based oils once over 200F... or in other words oxidation rate increases exponentially with increase in temperature.
This general rule applies to mineral based oils, but do not make an incorrect conclusion that synthetic oils do not oxidize, or wear out sooner, with increased temperature. They do, just not as quick as mineral based oils. And this oxidation is regarding the base oil, the additives are independent and if the same additive is present in both a mineral based and synthetic based oil and is significantly affected by temperature then the synthetic is no better than a mineral based oil in that respect. In general I believe any oil starts to break down once over 200F, with the meaning of "break down" very subjective; and on top of that you have break down of which, the base oil or the additives.
The real problem is oil temperature, the best solution is to maintain respectable oil temps, preferably under 200F, and higher than 150F. When you're stuck with high oil temps (250F + for extended periods) because of a poor cooling design, which is exactly what it is- stop thinking the manuf. is 100% correct 100% of the time- then you make your lubrication choice accordingly. First is viscosity, choose the correct viscosity weight for the intended operating temp, and also range of temps the oil will see. I honestly don't know what the minimum viscosity is for bearings and other loaded surfaces, and then you get into acceptable minimum, economy, what's best for longevity, etc. but from reputable sources such as above they have stated 13 cSt for journal bearings and hydraulic systems are 25 cSt which give optimal efficiency with minimal parasitic loss.
Synthetic oils have a flatter viscosity curve (higher viscosity index) but they still thin out at higher temperatures, so for a given temperature a lower weight synthetic does not equal a higher weight mineral oil. If you have 250 deg oil temps you would be wise to choose a 50 weight oil, mineral or synthetic; the question then becomes what's the coldest temps the oil will see. If it's 60F + then you could use a monograde SAE50, but if you're starting the engine on cold mornings then a 5w-50 or 15w-50 is a better choice if not required. also know ambient temps will play a big role in what your operating oil temp will be, such as if the tractor is used during the winter then operating temps will be much lower so you would probably want to use regular 10w-30 in that case.
and with high temperatures and oil break down, that's also subjective; too many people think high oil temp = instant problem; that's not necessarily true. It is if viscosity thins out to the point of wear, but general oil life is 50+ hours so even with a cheap mineral based oil running at 250F you could run all season assuming run time is under 50 hours... this is where oil analysis would come in handy.
http://www.midtownoil.com/downloads/What Is Oxidation In Lubricating Oil.pdf
general rule is oxidation doubles for every 10 deg C rise in temperature for mineral based oils once over 200F... or in other words oxidation rate increases exponentially with increase in temperature.
This general rule applies to mineral based oils, but do not make an incorrect conclusion that synthetic oils do not oxidize, or wear out sooner, with increased temperature. They do, just not as quick as mineral based oils. And this oxidation is regarding the base oil, the additives are independent and if the same additive is present in both a mineral based and synthetic based oil and is significantly affected by temperature then the synthetic is no better than a mineral based oil in that respect. In general I believe any oil starts to break down once over 200F, with the meaning of "break down" very subjective; and on top of that you have break down of which, the base oil or the additives.
The real problem is oil temperature, the best solution is to maintain respectable oil temps, preferably under 200F, and higher than 150F. When you're stuck with high oil temps (250F + for extended periods) because of a poor cooling design, which is exactly what it is- stop thinking the manuf. is 100% correct 100% of the time- then you make your lubrication choice accordingly. First is viscosity, choose the correct viscosity weight for the intended operating temp, and also range of temps the oil will see. I honestly don't know what the minimum viscosity is for bearings and other loaded surfaces, and then you get into acceptable minimum, economy, what's best for longevity, etc. but from reputable sources such as above they have stated 13 cSt for journal bearings and hydraulic systems are 25 cSt which give optimal efficiency with minimal parasitic loss.
Synthetic oils have a flatter viscosity curve (higher viscosity index) but they still thin out at higher temperatures, so for a given temperature a lower weight synthetic does not equal a higher weight mineral oil. If you have 250 deg oil temps you would be wise to choose a 50 weight oil, mineral or synthetic; the question then becomes what's the coldest temps the oil will see. If it's 60F + then you could use a monograde SAE50, but if you're starting the engine on cold mornings then a 5w-50 or 15w-50 is a better choice if not required. also know ambient temps will play a big role in what your operating oil temp will be, such as if the tractor is used during the winter then operating temps will be much lower so you would probably want to use regular 10w-30 in that case.
and with high temperatures and oil break down, that's also subjective; too many people think high oil temp = instant problem; that's not necessarily true. It is if viscosity thins out to the point of wear, but general oil life is 50+ hours so even with a cheap mineral based oil running at 250F you could run all season assuming run time is under 50 hours... this is where oil analysis would come in handy.
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