My wife's 05 Kia Rio has about 91K on it at the moment. Runs Great just some occasional slow shifting. To Our knowledge the ATF has never been changed. Fluid still has a nice ruby red color to it and no leaks. My Question Being... is it too late to change the fluid? or am i still safe to have it flushed and changed without hurting it? Thanks in advance.
Kia Rio ATF Change/Flush
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Originally Posted By: partenp
it too late to change the fluid? or am i still safe to have it flushed and changed without hurting it? Thanks in advance.
Because the engine oil hasn't been changed in a long time does not mean it's "Too Late." Same thing with transmission (or other fluids).
If you have a dipstick and a drain bolt (and not all do these days), you can just drain and re-fill it. Repeat that again after a week and then again every 30k miles. Check the proceedure for your specific car. A full swap at a service place is even better though a bit more expensive.
Doing ATF fluid is also a great time to do PS fluid. That is often overlooked.
it too late to change the fluid? or am i still safe to have it flushed and changed without hurting it? Thanks in advance.
Because the engine oil hasn't been changed in a long time does not mean it's "Too Late." Same thing with transmission (or other fluids).
If you have a dipstick and a drain bolt (and not all do these days), you can just drain and re-fill it. Repeat that again after a week and then again every 30k miles. Check the proceedure for your specific car. A full swap at a service place is even better though a bit more expensive.
Doing ATF fluid is also a great time to do PS fluid. That is often overlooked.
That was my primary question. Will putting new ATF via a full flush at a shop hurt the trans considering the current fluid is likely thicker than new fluid due to metal particles etc?... I have read that putting new ATF in a trans with old overdue fluid may cause it to begin slipping due to change in viscosity.
Oil is changed every 5k with full synthetic. Just the ATF that I'm worried about.
Also, I thought draining/refilling an automatic trans was kind of pointless since a good bit of ATF lies within the Torque Converter and is just mixed with old fluid...?
Oil is changed every 5k with full synthetic. Just the ATF that I'm worried about.
Also, I thought draining/refilling an automatic trans was kind of pointless since a good bit of ATF lies within the Torque Converter and is just mixed with old fluid...?
If you drop the pan you can get to the torque converter. In the absence of that, if you drain and refill and drain a few times, and then drive it for a while, you get most of the old fluid out.
The idea of not maintaining something b/c you haven't is bizarre. All fluids have a life span, ignoring that just increases the chances of mechanical problems, and in your Rio, a busted trans basically totals the car.
Change the fluid over a period of a few weeks.
The idea of not maintaining something b/c you haven't is bizarre. All fluids have a life span, ignoring that just increases the chances of mechanical problems, and in your Rio, a busted trans basically totals the car.
Change the fluid over a period of a few weeks.
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Originally Posted By: Farmer
It will look clean on the stick. Then dirty when you drain and compare to new fluid. This trend has been very common for all the vehicles I've done transmission drain and refills on. Including filter changes.
Wish to pick your brains on this ......
when the dipstick shows ruby red/ pinkish , the drain would not be dark grayish .....
but possibly light gray ?
It will look clean on the stick. Then dirty when you drain and compare to new fluid. This trend has been very common for all the vehicles I've done transmission drain and refills on. Including filter changes.
Wish to pick your brains on this ......
when the dipstick shows ruby red/ pinkish , the drain would not be dark grayish .....
but possibly light gray ?
Originally Posted By: partenp
That was my primary question. Will putting new ATF via a full flush at a shop hurt the trans considering the current fluid is likely thicker than new fluid due to metal particles etc?... I have read that putting new ATF in a trans with old overdue fluid may cause it to begin slipping due to change in viscosity.
Oil is changed every 5k with full synthetic. Just the ATF that I'm worried about.
Also, I thought draining/refilling an automatic trans was kind of pointless since a good bit of ATF lies within the Torque Converter and is just mixed with old fluid...?
You have picked up some bad advice; but that's not your fault. There is a lot of bad advice out there about ATs.
The new fluid will be thicker than the old; it experiences the same thinning as motor oil does from heat, oxidation, and mechanical insult (just at a much slower rate). The new fluid will reduce any slipping that is going on, not increase it. Wear metals of any size should be on the magnets in the bottom of the pan or in the filter media, not in the fluid.
The torque converter holds a lot of fluid, in your car likely 3qts +/- 1/4. It does not push that all out linearly like in a brake line, etc. But it does push new fluid in and old fluid out, albeit with mixing in the chamber. I'd guess you'd get at least 2/3rds of the old out. You can take a look at this Toyota technical manual to get a clear picture of what we are talking about. Scroll down to page 18 on this .pdf and look at the diagram on Lock Up, it has a good side view of typical fluid flow concering a typical torque converter:
http://www.ita.mx/files/pdfs/guias-ingles-feb2012/art-mecanica-1.pdf
You will get a very high percentage of the fluid swapped if you use the cooler lines even with residual left behind and the mixing in the TC body.
That was my primary question. Will putting new ATF via a full flush at a shop hurt the trans considering the current fluid is likely thicker than new fluid due to metal particles etc?... I have read that putting new ATF in a trans with old overdue fluid may cause it to begin slipping due to change in viscosity.
Oil is changed every 5k with full synthetic. Just the ATF that I'm worried about.
Also, I thought draining/refilling an automatic trans was kind of pointless since a good bit of ATF lies within the Torque Converter and is just mixed with old fluid...?
You have picked up some bad advice; but that's not your fault. There is a lot of bad advice out there about ATs.
The new fluid will be thicker than the old; it experiences the same thinning as motor oil does from heat, oxidation, and mechanical insult (just at a much slower rate). The new fluid will reduce any slipping that is going on, not increase it. Wear metals of any size should be on the magnets in the bottom of the pan or in the filter media, not in the fluid.
The torque converter holds a lot of fluid, in your car likely 3qts +/- 1/4. It does not push that all out linearly like in a brake line, etc. But it does push new fluid in and old fluid out, albeit with mixing in the chamber. I'd guess you'd get at least 2/3rds of the old out. You can take a look at this Toyota technical manual to get a clear picture of what we are talking about. Scroll down to page 18 on this .pdf and look at the diagram on Lock Up, it has a good side view of typical fluid flow concering a typical torque converter:
http://www.ita.mx/files/pdfs/guias-ingles-feb2012/art-mecanica-1.pdf
You will get a very high percentage of the fluid swapped if you use the cooler lines even with residual left behind and the mixing in the TC body.
I would just do a pan drop and filter change. I'm pretty sure that the auto tranny in those cars were not know to be the best.
My Daughter has a 04 Kia Rio that had 98,000 miles on it when she got it and the transmission had just been replaced about a 1,000 miles prior. I think I read on the Kia forums that it was important to change the tranny fluid on a regular basis for this car. I'm wanting to think that it is supposed to be changed every 30,000 miles.
Wayne
My Daughter has a 04 Kia Rio that had 98,000 miles on it when she got it and the transmission had just been replaced about a 1,000 miles prior. I think I read on the Kia forums that it was important to change the tranny fluid on a regular basis for this car. I'm wanting to think that it is supposed to be changed every 30,000 miles.
Wayne
Do a "coolerline flush".That way you get most fluid out.
Youtube have a few videos showing how to do it.
Coolerline flushs is what I do on my 2009 Hyundai Sonatas.
My Sonata LTD was done with Amsoil ATF, seeing there tests done on it, I will never change it again.
Maxlife atf is what I use now in my other Sonata.
It should work in your vehicle too I think...just make sure. On the Sonata LTD I did a maxlife flush first to get all the old ATF out, then did the Amsoil atf flush.
See the Maxlife aft flush as a practice run before you use the Amsoil if you go that route.
Good luck.
Youtube have a few videos showing how to do it.
Coolerline flushs is what I do on my 2009 Hyundai Sonatas.
My Sonata LTD was done with Amsoil ATF, seeing there tests done on it, I will never change it again.
Maxlife atf is what I use now in my other Sonata.
It should work in your vehicle too I think...just make sure. On the Sonata LTD I did a maxlife flush first to get all the old ATF out, then did the Amsoil atf flush.
See the Maxlife aft flush as a practice run before you use the Amsoil if you go that route.
Good luck.
Originally Posted By: zeng
Wish to pick your brains on this ......
when the dipstick shows ruby red/ pinkish , the drain would not be dark grayish .....
but possibly light gray ?
The fluid can look very red on the stick, then drain out pretty dark. It is hard to judge the contamination and degradation from the stick until it is quite used up. I have looked at fluid that was very red, then drained it, and in the milk jug it looks quite black.
Grey could be water and fine metal. It should usually vary from red to black in normal trajectory of use. Then brown/burnt smelling if a problem. If you have a grey, I would check the pan magnets are in place; they should pic up metal wear.
Another way to judge is a blot test. Pull the stick and touch it to a paper towel or piece of paper. This will let the fluid migrate out into the paper and reveal contaminants.
Wish to pick your brains on this ......
when the dipstick shows ruby red/ pinkish , the drain would not be dark grayish .....
but possibly light gray ?
The fluid can look very red on the stick, then drain out pretty dark. It is hard to judge the contamination and degradation from the stick until it is quite used up. I have looked at fluid that was very red, then drained it, and in the milk jug it looks quite black.
Grey could be water and fine metal. It should usually vary from red to black in normal trajectory of use. Then brown/burnt smelling if a problem. If you have a grey, I would check the pan magnets are in place; they should pic up metal wear.
Another way to judge is a blot test. Pull the stick and touch it to a paper towel or piece of paper. This will let the fluid migrate out into the paper and reveal contaminants.
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Okay thanks for the advice.
Would a "Full Flush" from a shop be a better route...? I'm fairly mechanically inclined. However haven't messed with Automatic Trans much and want to keep this car running as long as possible. I Don't mind to pay the $100 or so if its the best thing for it...
Would a "Full Flush" from a shop be a better route...? I'm fairly mechanically inclined. However haven't messed with Automatic Trans much and want to keep this car running as long as possible. I Don't mind to pay the $100 or so if its the best thing for it...
We just did our 2006 Ford with the Aisin Warner AW21 6 speed with 110K miles. The ATF was still reddish/pink but the blot test left a dirty stain. We pumped it out of the cooler line into 1 gallon spring water jugs. It is VERY dark just as Or
stated.
There is no pan to drop or filter to change in our case but I have stopped doing that. We have a 2000 Towncar with the ATF 115K miles old and will just pull a cooler line (easy on that one) and do an exchange by pumping until bubbles then refill and repeat a few cycles using about 4 quarts more than the system holds.
Based on what you posted partenp I would consider doing it yourself but I do not know your car but Google/Youtube could change that shortly.
stated.
There is no pan to drop or filter to change in our case but I have stopped doing that. We have a 2000 Towncar with the ATF 115K miles old and will just pull a cooler line (easy on that one) and do an exchange by pumping until bubbles then refill and repeat a few cycles using about 4 quarts more than the system holds.
Based on what you posted partenp I would consider doing it yourself but I do not know your car but Google/Youtube could change that shortly.
Originally Posted By: partenp
Okay thanks for the advice.
Would a "Full Flush" from a shop be a better route...? I'm fairly mechanically inclined. However haven't messed with Automatic Trans much and want to keep this car running as long as possible. I Don't mind to pay the $100 or so if its the best thing for it...
Sounds like you could take care of it yourself. Does it have a drain bolt or removable pan? Sounds like it has a dispstick (good); does it have lines to an external cooler in the radiator?
I don't know that car at all in particular.
Okay thanks for the advice.
Would a "Full Flush" from a shop be a better route...? I'm fairly mechanically inclined. However haven't messed with Automatic Trans much and want to keep this car running as long as possible. I Don't mind to pay the $100 or so if its the best thing for it...
Sounds like you could take care of it yourself. Does it have a drain bolt or removable pan? Sounds like it has a dispstick (good); does it have lines to an external cooler in the radiator?
I don't know that car at all in particular.
Originally Posted By: Or
Originally Posted By: zeng
Wish to pick your brains on this ......
when the dipstick shows ruby red/ pinkish , the drain would not be dark grayish .....
but possibly light gray ?
The fluid can look very red on the stick, then drain out pretty dark. It is hard to judge the contamination and degradation from the stick until it is quite used up. I have looked at fluid that was very red, then drained it, and in the milk jug it looks quite black.
Grey could be water and fine metal. It should usually vary from red to black in normal trajectory of use. Then brown/burnt smelling if a problem. If you have a grey, I would check the pan magnets are in place; they should pic up metal wear.
Another way to judge is a blot test. Pull the stick and touch it to a paper towel or piece of paper. This will let the fluid migrate out into the paper and reveal contaminants.
Oh yeah , blot test is a fantastic 'tool' .
Thanks heaps
Originally Posted By: zeng
Wish to pick your brains on this ......
when the dipstick shows ruby red/ pinkish , the drain would not be dark grayish .....
but possibly light gray ?
The fluid can look very red on the stick, then drain out pretty dark. It is hard to judge the contamination and degradation from the stick until it is quite used up. I have looked at fluid that was very red, then drained it, and in the milk jug it looks quite black.
Grey could be water and fine metal. It should usually vary from red to black in normal trajectory of use. Then brown/burnt smelling if a problem. If you have a grey, I would check the pan magnets are in place; they should pic up metal wear.
Another way to judge is a blot test. Pull the stick and touch it to a paper towel or piece of paper. This will let the fluid migrate out into the paper and reveal contaminants.
Oh yeah , blot test is a fantastic 'tool' .
Thanks heaps
Do not do a full flush. My dealer stopped using our flushing machines due to concerns it was ruining trans. This procedure is fairly easy , remove the drain plug on the trans. This should be a 24mm bolt, about 3 quarts will drain. Reinstall the plug , torque spec is about 30 or so and fill with 3 quarts SPIII fluid. I really recommend using SPIII specifically , have seen problems with "universal" type fluid.
Originally Posted By: partenp
Okay thanks for the advice.
Would a "Full Flush" from a shop be a better route...? I'm fairly mechanically inclined. However haven't messed with Automatic Trans much and want to keep this car running as long as possible. I Don't mind to pay the $100 or so if its the best thing for it...
I wouldnt do it. Or have a shop do it.
The full flush will unsettle all kinds of contaminants that are now settled in the pan and all over your trans.
You've got clutch dust, metal particles and all kind of other goop in there now. If you are handy drop the pan and check it out yourself. This way you can see how much of your trans is actually sitting in the pan now. If there is a filter in there you can change it.
A flush will dislodge many of these particles and circulate them back though your trans and this plus the immediate friction difference can cause accelerated premature wear and more slippage. This is why guys complain they lose their transmissions soon after a flush.
The mix of the old and new is much less abrupt friction change that all new all at once and easier on the trans in general.
I do regular drain and fills on my vehicles and have never lost a trans, and have no leaks.
Taking it from the coolant lines gets more out but is usually messier than a simple drain and fill.
A couple of easy drain and fills and you'll be in good shape.
Okay thanks for the advice.
Would a "Full Flush" from a shop be a better route...? I'm fairly mechanically inclined. However haven't messed with Automatic Trans much and want to keep this car running as long as possible. I Don't mind to pay the $100 or so if its the best thing for it...
I wouldnt do it. Or have a shop do it.
The full flush will unsettle all kinds of contaminants that are now settled in the pan and all over your trans.
You've got clutch dust, metal particles and all kind of other goop in there now. If you are handy drop the pan and check it out yourself. This way you can see how much of your trans is actually sitting in the pan now. If there is a filter in there you can change it.
A flush will dislodge many of these particles and circulate them back though your trans and this plus the immediate friction difference can cause accelerated premature wear and more slippage. This is why guys complain they lose their transmissions soon after a flush.
The mix of the old and new is much less abrupt friction change that all new all at once and easier on the trans in general.
I do regular drain and fills on my vehicles and have never lost a trans, and have no leaks.
Taking it from the coolant lines gets more out but is usually messier than a simple drain and fill.
A couple of easy drain and fills and you'll be in good shape.
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