K24 and 10k OCIs

[Spring Break '92]

Likely your valves clearances needs to be a adjusted!

Nope, it plays into it but that's not why. I know WAY more about the VTC rattle than I ever cared to. I went way down that rabbit hole. Anyone seeing this can PM me and we can discuss all of that.

 

[Spring Break '92]

Then rattles for several seconds before dying down (might still be there but not as bad). No idea what that is.

I do, and I can help you get it fixed for far less time and money than the prescribed way Honda does it, message me.

 

[supton]

Likely your valves clearances needs to be a adjusted!

Probably does, I should have checked when it was warmer out. Last time I looked one looked like this--I'm guessing it could stand to be tightened up a bit. The others aren't as bad, so maybe it's time.

 

[Spring Break '92]

Probably does, I should have checked when it was warmer out. Last time I looked one looked like this--I'm guessing it could stand to be tightened up a bit. The others aren't as bad, so maybe it's time.

Holy lobe wear!! That thing is wiped. You need to replace that camshaft. Ebay is a good source. And for the record, on the K-series engines the valvetrain gets quieter and the valves get tighter with time, not the other way around like you may think. Burned valves are a possibility if gone too long.

 

[supton]

Holy lobe wear!! You need to replace that camshaft. Ebay is a good source. And for the record, on the K-series engines the valvetrain gets quieter and the valves get tighter with time, not the other way around like you may think. Burned valves are a possibility if gone too long.

I looked at ebay but $70 camshafts don't inspire confidence. But OEM ones are $700. So do I do the job twice, risking a cheapo one, and hope the timing chain set isn't worn out? still have to do followers too.

I asked my garage about it and they didn't want to touch it. Don't blame them, it's opening a can of worms. Maybe this summer, when I get a spare vehicle and can have the downtime, it can be torn into--but only if we can justify throwing it away if it goes sideways. [Schrodinger's cat is alive and truly dead. It's better to not know how bad the engine is, as long as it still starts and runs, it can go until someone is foolish enough to determine what condition it is in.]

 

[Spring Break '92]

I looked at ebay but $70 camshafts don't inspire confidence. But OEM ones are $700. So do I do the job twice, risking a cheapo one, and hope the timing chain set isn't worn out? still have to do followers too.

Ummmm, I don't think you realize, none of them are. They are all OEM Honda unless they are some aftermarket racing cams. It's pretty cut and dry. You buy a used camshaft that's lobes aren't wiped clean off and install it.

Regarding the timing components, you need to replace the timing chain tensioner at least once during your time with the car. They are the Achilles Heel of the K-series. Many times that will resolve the rattle from the VTC actuator on its own. And, verify the chain isn't stretched before anything else.

 

[supton]

Ummmm, I don't think you realize, none of them are. They are all OEM Honda unless they are some aftermarket racing cams. It's pretty cut and dry. You buy a used camshaft that's lobes aren't wiped clean off and install it.

Regarding the timing components, you need to replace the timing chain tensioner at least once during your time with the car. They are the Achilles Heel of the K-series. Many times that will resolve the rattle from the VTC actuator on its own. And, verify the chain isn't stretched before anything else.

I recall seeing some cheapo ones for $70, new. That was last year. I spent 3 seconds and now I see some used ones on fleabay, so maybe something changed. See some upwards of $300, so better than my recollection for $700 for OEM (which might be from real dealer prices). Link. Still need followers. Swear I didn't see used ones last year when I looked...

Why should the timing chain / TC tensioner need replacement? might as well left as a timing belt. Dumb design if true. 300k is the new 200k. I guess all cars have some drawback, this one being exhaust cam and timing chain system (and oil filter location, and ac compressors that grenade, and driver seat bushings that give out, and yellowing headlights, and PCV location, and some intake manifold valve that gums up in winter).

I did try to look at how to check the tensioner, there's an access plate. It's also wedged in a bad spot and really hard to get to. Otherwise I would have checked to see how worn it was--but it looked like a real job to get in there.

 

[TomYoung]

Oh but nothing in this world is perfect. Rattling VTC actuators, failing timing chain tensioners, stretched timing chains, premature exhaust cam lobe wear, gunked up VTEC and VTC strainers, and stuck piston rings. Pretty much all caused by people doing 10K oil change intervals dictated by the maintenance minder and not keeping their oil topped up. Really comes down to 0W20 being the specified grade.

I don’t think these are common issues, disagree on 0w20, but am in complete agreement on 10,000 mile OCIs being unwise.

 

[Spring Break '92]

Why should the timing chain / TC tensioner need replacement?

I did try to look at how to check the tensioner, there's an access plate. It's also wedged in a bad spot and really hard to get to.

Tensioner gets the brunt of the VTC rotor vanes slapping back and forth because the springs for the lock pin get weak and shorten. Tensioner piston teeth grind down and chain tension drops. Low oil levels overheat the chain and high oil change intervals allow tiny debris in the holes for the chain pins and both things elongate the timing chains, which then overextend tensioners and it all equals bad things.

Tensioner is easy, that's why there is an access plate. Just make sure that valve cover comes off and you use a prybar to keep tension on the rear guide so the chain doesn't slip off of the lower crank gear.

 

[Spring Break '92]

I don’t think these are common issues, disagree on 0w20, but am in complete agreement on 10,000 mile OCIs being unwise.

Doesn't matter if you agree, they are common issues. Regarding 0W20, what then, would be doing these things?

 

[supton]

Tensioner is easy,

Been a while since I looked. I just recall it being right against the wheel well, making it really hard to pull and check to see how far out it had moved. I'll have to look again, I had a picture at one time showing what was too far out for the tensioner, but I closed that tab long ago.

 

[Spring Break '92]

Been a while since I looked. I just recall it being right against the wheel well, making it really hard to pull and check to see how far out it had moved. I'll have to look again, I had a picture at one time showing what was too far out for the tensioner, but I closed that tab long ago.

Anything more than 5-6 exposed teeth, it's operating on borrowed time. The springs in the tensioners can only do so much on startup as well, and they weaken with time. Not to be confused with what I wrote about the springs in the VTC actuator, mind you.

If you do end up replacing the timing chain - which people do - make sure you install an aftermarket lower chain guard to insure that the chain won't come off of the lower gear if the tensioner does fail on you.

 

[K24Z7&M20AFXS]

Probably does, I should have checked when it was warmer out. Last time I looked one looked like this--I'm guessing it could stand to be tightened up a bit. The others aren't as bad, so maybe it's time.
View attachment 260075

Oh! Needs a Camshaft, perhaps Rockers too and an adjustment! That cam is definitely done!

 

[K24Z7&M20AFXS]

Holy lobe wear!! That thing is wiped. You need to replace that camshaft. Ebay is a good source. And for the record, on the K-series engines the valvetrain gets quieter and the valves get tighter with time, not the other way around like you may think. Burned valves are a possibility if gone too long.

My 2012 Si is notorious for tightening exhaust valves and loosing intakes ones.. haven't tought about checking the tensioner though.. might try and do that while the front bumper is off.

 

[Spring Break '92]

My 2012 Si is notorious for tightening exhaust valves and loosing intakes ones.. haven't tought about checking the tensioner though.. might try and do that while the front bumper is off.

Don't waste your time just simply checking it - outright replace it.

 

[K24Z7&M20AFXS]

Don't waste your time just simply checking it - outright replace it.

I meant to check if there was a lot of teeths exposed. At 300k miles, i kind of expect it..

 

[JeffKeryk]

Lucky you, you got one of the K24 engines with an aluminum intake manifold. I imagine you have VTC on both cams, is that correct?

2006 TSX, currently has about 230K on the clock. Yes on the VTEC.

 

[wlk]

I looked at ebay but $70 camshafts don't inspire confidence. But OEM ones are $700. So do I do the job twice, risking a cheapo one, and hope the timing chain set isn't worn out? still have to do followers too.

I asked my garage about it and they didn't want to touch it. Don't blame them, it's opening a can of worms. Maybe this summer, when I get a spare vehicle and can have the downtime, it can be torn into--but only if we can justify throwing it away if it goes sideways. [Schrodinger's cat is alive and truly dead. It's better to not know how bad the engine is, as long as it still starts and runs, it can go until someone is foolish enough to determine what condition it is in.]

Run it until it dies or buy a JDM motor to replace it. I wouldn't bother trying to repair it just replace it.

 

[supton]

Run it until it dies or buy a JDM motor to replace it. I wouldn't bother trying to repair it just replace it.

Been just running it. Not sure I want to pay to have the engine swapped (then again, given how much it costs to buy replacement vehicles...) Been hearing bad things about JDM engines, and at this point, the car is 20 years old, not sure what is out there that would properly drop in.

 

[wlk]

Been just running it. Not sure I want to pay to have the engine swapped (then again, given how much it costs to buy replacement vehicles...) Been hearing bad things about JDM engines, and at this point, the car is 20 years old, not sure what is out there that would properly drop in.

On the Element forums I have not heard of JDMs being bad and are the first resort for replacements. I would trust them but as with all some will report bad. Just like any repair, is it worth it, is up to you. Definitely cheaper than a new car payment