Thom, do you have experience with the K&N air filter prewraps? I ordered one today. It is designed for dusty conditions and to waterproof the filter. I felt the extra protection made sense and certainly could not hurt. Essentially, it is like a second filter, before the K&N. Also, keeping water out has to be a positive, especially if you are in an area that has heavy rains and occasional flooding. It should also make occasional cleaning easier I would think, just clean the prewrap. I used the filter without the prewrap for about 6000 miles, so as to get the filter dirty and increase its efficiency. I think K&N should sell these prewraps and promote them for all K&N users, I am curious what you guys think?
K&N vs others(paper)
- Thread starter Spector
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I'm not aware that anyone on our site has used the K&N prewrap, though those that
have placed their air filters in their wheel wells might be good candidates. My only concern
is how much it affects air flow. A small drop in air volume might well be acceptable, assuming
the models being used by those that decide to add the prewrap, substantially exceed their
engines' peak demands - which is normally the case.
have placed their air filters in their wheel wells might be good candidates. My only concern
is how much it affects air flow. A small drop in air volume might well be acceptable, assuming
the models being used by those that decide to add the prewrap, substantially exceed their
engines' peak demands - which is normally the case.
just a thought. if oil filters have a bypass valve when their is too much pressure, why cant air intakes have one as a secondary source of intake? like if i reach 6k rpm it will open a bypass so that more air can come in. NOS does this in that if the throttle is pressed all the way down the trigger is activated.
inerestingly stupid maybe. hehe. but wouldnt that be cool? so u have good air, then when u need the power it opens another port for more air and then later it goes back down and gets air from a normal air filter.
inerestingly stupid maybe. hehe. but wouldnt that be cool? so u have good air, then when u need the power it opens another port for more air and then later it goes back down and gets air from a normal air filter.
Patman
Staff member
Why would you want unfiltered air to get in though? This would spell early death of the motor for sure. Temporarily unfiltered engine oil won't hurt, but temporarily unfiltered air will introduce an insane amount of silicon to the oil.
I firmly believe that for the everyday use the FRAM air filters are the best. They flow nearly as much as K&Ns and on teh dyno have shown to not have a power disadvantage to the K&N.....Patman knows too....
For fuel injected cars with MAFs (MassAirFlow sensors) I do not like K&Ns. As Mger Thom, my friend from the TCCoA site mentioned.
Many people do not understand or realize is the fact that K&N filters contaminate the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor sample wires of many cars, especially Ford ! Parts of the the filter oil travels onto the sample wires and cake up with ultra fine dirt particles, which in the burn-off cycle after the engine shuts off, glaze onto the wires. In short order you have drivability issues = lean condition.
CLEAN YOUR MAFs.
I have never seeen a K&N alone on a dyno generate significant more horsepower...okay, okay 1hp here and another there, but that is not enough for me to get one. Also, if you don't have the re-oiling procedure down pat and over-oil, flow numbers go downa nd the MAF problem gets worse.
[ April 04, 2003, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Alex D ]
For fuel injected cars with MAFs (MassAirFlow sensors) I do not like K&Ns. As Mger Thom, my friend from the TCCoA site mentioned.
Many people do not understand or realize is the fact that K&N filters contaminate the Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor sample wires of many cars, especially Ford ! Parts of the the filter oil travels onto the sample wires and cake up with ultra fine dirt particles, which in the burn-off cycle after the engine shuts off, glaze onto the wires. In short order you have drivability issues = lean condition.
CLEAN YOUR MAFs.
I have never seeen a K&N alone on a dyno generate significant more horsepower...okay, okay 1hp here and another there, but that is not enough for me to get one. Also, if you don't have the re-oiling procedure down pat and over-oil, flow numbers go downa nd the MAF problem gets worse.
[ April 04, 2003, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Alex D ]
I run a K&N pre-filter on my 6.2L Blazer in the stock air box. It's my four wheeler and I don't trust K&N's dirt filtering ability. It did not hurt performance a bit, but it ain't exactly the best engine to measure it on. Makes a whopping 150 or so HP at something like 3500 rpm. Can't rember for sure the actual numbers.
I also bought a Dry-Vac pre-filter to use on my Kia Rio that has a home brew Cold Air induction. It is a open cell foam that pretty much fit the K&N cone filter I bought to use on the Rio and it's alot cheaper. I G-Teched {a cheap on-board timing and HP computer} and found no power loss. I believe that as long as the filter is big enough for the engines air flow, it won't matter much.
>>>Does DaimlerChrysler authorized the use of high-flow aftermarket air filters such as K&N with my Cummins engine?
No. DaimlerChrysler and Cummins do not recommend the use of increased flow air filters such as K&N, because they can allow contaminants into the intake that can ruin an engine (scoring the sides of the pistons, etc.)
(Copied off the www.cummins.com customer assistance FAQ)
No. DaimlerChrysler and Cummins do not recommend the use of increased flow air filters such as K&N, because they can allow contaminants into the intake that can ruin an engine (scoring the sides of the pistons, etc.)
(Copied off the www.cummins.com customer assistance FAQ)
I had an extra K & N style cone filter from an fipk that I am running on my ford pickup. It is not a K & N brand but it is a 4 layered oiled cotton just like the K & N. The opening on the filter is 4" inside diameter, just large enough to get my hand inside ( clean air side ). I decided to do a little sand test. Just filled up my daughters sandbox so I had plenty. Took a tablespoon and started sprinkling some sand on the filter with my hand inside. It made me sick to my stomach how much sand got through on the clean air side. Tried this numerous times with the same results. 97% intial pass efficiency / 2.8 microns MY A** ! Each time I had a large amount sitting in the palm of my hand. I then put a nice little layer of sand on the entire filter and stood the filter on end on a white paper towel. Each time I tapped the filter there was a lrge amount of dirt left on the clean air side of the towel. I have been running this FIPK for approx. 4000 miles now. What really upsets me is the fact that I should know better. I am a Master Certified Truck Mechanic and a Cummins Diesel Technician / Foreman and I have seen first hand what dirt in an engine can do. We currently have 2 "dusted" engines in the shop that had 40+" of blowby on the dyno. Both were caused by insufficient sealing at the air cleaner housing.
I see it all the time and here I am jeopardizing my engine with a "performance filter." I am upset because I got caught up in all that marketing crap and horsepower gains. I am not taking my 4x4 to the dragstrip, nor am I racing circle track. What the hell do I need it for? The answer is I don't. I got sucked in to the advertisements. I believe that if the cotton guaze filtered as well as paper, the large national trucking fleets ie:
J.B.Hunt, Schneider, Ryder, Penske, Etc., that I deal with every day would be running them since it would save soooo much $. Bottom line, IMHO , cotton guaze for racing applications, paper for everyday practical normal use. Sorry this is so long, just had to get it off my chest. Been chasing this K and N / Paper thing for months and there is no better test than a test you do yourself. I am conviced, finally, that K and N is not for me, nor will it ever go in any of my autos! We have cabinets full of those "filter minder" restriction guages that I will be plumbing into my airbox come monday. Back top paper for me. Just my opinion. There, I feel better now.
I see it all the time and here I am jeopardizing my engine with a "performance filter." I am upset because I got caught up in all that marketing crap and horsepower gains. I am not taking my 4x4 to the dragstrip, nor am I racing circle track. What the hell do I need it for? The answer is I don't. I got sucked in to the advertisements. I believe that if the cotton guaze filtered as well as paper, the large national trucking fleets ie:
J.B.Hunt, Schneider, Ryder, Penske, Etc., that I deal with every day would be running them since it would save soooo much $. Bottom line, IMHO , cotton guaze for racing applications, paper for everyday practical normal use. Sorry this is so long, just had to get it off my chest. Been chasing this K and N / Paper thing for months and there is no better test than a test you do yourself. I am conviced, finally, that K and N is not for me, nor will it ever go in any of my autos! We have cabinets full of those "filter minder" restriction guages that I will be plumbing into my airbox come monday. Back top paper for me. Just my opinion. There, I feel better now.
detroitford, that's a good test, simple yet revealing. If so much debris gets through just sprinkling it on, it makes you think "What chance does the oiled gauze type filter have in stopping a particle comming at it in a XXXX FPM airflow?"
I have to confess, I'm a member of the "have one but don't use it" group too.
[ May 03, 2003, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: Rick in PA ]
I have to confess, I'm a member of the "have one but don't use it" group too.
[ May 03, 2003, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: Rick in PA ]
Yeah, they can throw their SAE numbers and lab testing at me but all I needed was a couple teaspoons of dirt on the filter to prove to me that these filters will allow more dirt. 2.8 microns? A grain of sand is larger than that and there were plenty of grains coming through on the clean air side. Anyone with a K & N try it for yourself and see what happens.
Well I've been trying to decide whether or not to use the slightly used Accel Kool Blue air filter that I took off of my '02 F-150 before trading it in. It also fits my '03 Mustang GT. After following this topic and seeing the results of this sand experiment/test I have made up my mind to just stay with paper air filters. It's not worth the risk for 2 or 3 more horsepower. Any of you believers want to buy a slightly used Accel Kool Blue air filter?
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