I think the point is, That most Americans, me included, feel police are moving into this tactical mode of thought. They think they are Seal Team 6 with Judge Dredd sprinkled on top. Police should be police, serve and protect. They have radios and usually when they confront a serious problem, they call in about every cop in a 30 mile radius. There is usually a hundred cops there before they make a move. If they don't have time to call more cops, they are going to use the sidearm. Regardless, people should be alarmed when police start to take a military approach to dealing with the public. The face masks, the helmet, black garb. It doesn't make me feel secure, as a matter of fact it makes me feel less secure. I don't like having a Cobra storm trooper for a police officer. It makes me curious what mind set they are in, in that mode, it surely isn't public servant, I can assure you.
Just saw an assault rifle on a police motorcycle
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What are the chances it's actually an assault rifle? A semi-automatic rifle isn't an assault rifle.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
An assault rifle screams "thug", which they should save for the SWAT team or at least hide in the cruisers.
That's a pretty broad brush to be painting with. The M4/M16 is the standard service rifle for the military and the AR15 (its semi-auto counterpart) is incredibly popular with law enforcement and is also the most popular centerfire for citizens based on sales.
That's a whole lot of "thugs".
It's good that those most likely to be first on the scene have rifles. If you need the services of a good guy with a rifle, do you want to wait another 10 or 20 minutes for a "special" cop to drive across town or do you want the guy that's patrolling your neighborhood to be able to deal with the threat?
The local cops in my podunk farm town carry three long guns in their cruisers, plus a taser and handgun on their belts. Long guns are 12ga Rem 870 shotgun, .223 AR-15, and a .22LR Ruger 10/22. Different tools for different jobs. No SWAT teams here either, unless you want to wait a couple of hours for the state patrol to send one.
An assault rifle screams "thug", which they should save for the SWAT team or at least hide in the cruisers.
That's a pretty broad brush to be painting with. The M4/M16 is the standard service rifle for the military and the AR15 (its semi-auto counterpart) is incredibly popular with law enforcement and is also the most popular centerfire for citizens based on sales.
That's a whole lot of "thugs".
It's good that those most likely to be first on the scene have rifles. If you need the services of a good guy with a rifle, do you want to wait another 10 or 20 minutes for a "special" cop to drive across town or do you want the guy that's patrolling your neighborhood to be able to deal with the threat?
The local cops in my podunk farm town carry three long guns in their cruisers, plus a taser and handgun on their belts. Long guns are 12ga Rem 870 shotgun, .223 AR-15, and a .22LR Ruger 10/22. Different tools for different jobs. No SWAT teams here either, unless you want to wait a couple of hours for the state patrol to send one.
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Frankly, post 9/11 the federal gov't subjicated many duties and pushed for local law enforcement to take on the role that it has. Local cops have nothing to do with ICE but we are often tasked with that role. This is what has bred the tactical nonsense you see everywhere. There is a tremendous breakdown with LE and the general public on many fronts.
For me, the most egerious is the blantant use of state police agencies to fill coffers with dollars off the general public's back for whatever traffic infraction all in the name of safety. Most of it is pure [censored]. There is a fine line between revenue generation and garnering compliance....most states are in revenue generation mode. Most are also backed heavily by the auto insurance agencies. Go figure.
For me, the most egerious is the blantant use of state police agencies to fill coffers with dollars off the general public's back for whatever traffic infraction all in the name of safety. Most of it is pure [censored]. There is a fine line between revenue generation and garnering compliance....most states are in revenue generation mode. Most are also backed heavily by the auto insurance agencies. Go figure.
Originally Posted By: strat81
Originally Posted By: eljefino
An assault rifle screams "thug", which they should save for the SWAT team or at least hide in the cruisers.
That's a pretty broad brush to be painting with. The M4/M16 is the standard service rifle for the military and the AR15 (its semi-auto counterpart) is incredibly popular with law enforcement and is also the most popular centerfire for citizens based on sales.
That's a whole lot of "thugs".
My angle is that at least in my community it would be gauche waving an AR-15 openly. I don't care if it's mounted under the dashboard. My taxes pay for full size police SUVs full of gear I can't see inside but assume they need in this modern era. The parents in the OPs article probably wouldn't mind either, if it was secure and kids weren't messing with it.
Waving around para-military firepower openly and uneccessarily smacks of some 3rd world police state. Our police are walking endorsements for our constitutional criminal justice system, which the citizens will support as long as they're comfortable with it. The school assembly was an exercise in preventative community policing, and failed miserably at that. Wear a uniform appropriate for your community standards, including tactical gear or the lack thereof. (Coincidentally I prefer bullet-proof vests worn under shirts, not over them. Over implies "looking for a fight.")
Originally Posted By: eljefino
An assault rifle screams "thug", which they should save for the SWAT team or at least hide in the cruisers.
That's a pretty broad brush to be painting with. The M4/M16 is the standard service rifle for the military and the AR15 (its semi-auto counterpart) is incredibly popular with law enforcement and is also the most popular centerfire for citizens based on sales.
That's a whole lot of "thugs".
My angle is that at least in my community it would be gauche waving an AR-15 openly. I don't care if it's mounted under the dashboard. My taxes pay for full size police SUVs full of gear I can't see inside but assume they need in this modern era. The parents in the OPs article probably wouldn't mind either, if it was secure and kids weren't messing with it.
Waving around para-military firepower openly and uneccessarily smacks of some 3rd world police state. Our police are walking endorsements for our constitutional criminal justice system, which the citizens will support as long as they're comfortable with it. The school assembly was an exercise in preventative community policing, and failed miserably at that. Wear a uniform appropriate for your community standards, including tactical gear or the lack thereof. (Coincidentally I prefer bullet-proof vests worn under shirts, not over them. Over implies "looking for a fight.")
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I think the point is, That most Americans, me included, feel police are moving into this tactical mode of thought. They think they are Seal Team 6 with Judge Dredd sprinkled on top. Police should be police, serve and protect. They have radios and usually when they confront a serious problem, they call in about every cop in a 30 mile radius. There is usually a hundred cops there before they make a move. If they don't have time to call more cops, they are going to use the sidearm. Regardless, people should be alarmed when police start to take a military approach to dealing with the public. The face masks, the helmet, black garb. It doesn't make me feel secure, as a matter of fact it makes me feel less secure. I don't like having a Cobra storm trooper for a police officer. It makes me curious what mind set they are in, in that mode, it surely isn't public servant, I can assure you.
Yeah...blurs the line between military and police...and you get a few wanna' be's in the mix, and there's a potential for abuse and overstepping legal authority.
That said, if I were on patrol, I would want a rifle...what was it that Jeff Cooper said? " A handgun is merely a weapon used to fight your way back to your rifle"?
I think the point is, That most Americans, me included, feel police are moving into this tactical mode of thought. They think they are Seal Team 6 with Judge Dredd sprinkled on top. Police should be police, serve and protect. They have radios and usually when they confront a serious problem, they call in about every cop in a 30 mile radius. There is usually a hundred cops there before they make a move. If they don't have time to call more cops, they are going to use the sidearm. Regardless, people should be alarmed when police start to take a military approach to dealing with the public. The face masks, the helmet, black garb. It doesn't make me feel secure, as a matter of fact it makes me feel less secure. I don't like having a Cobra storm trooper for a police officer. It makes me curious what mind set they are in, in that mode, it surely isn't public servant, I can assure you.
Yeah...blurs the line between military and police...and you get a few wanna' be's in the mix, and there's a potential for abuse and overstepping legal authority.
That said, if I were on patrol, I would want a rifle...what was it that Jeff Cooper said? " A handgun is merely a weapon used to fight your way back to your rifle"?
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Yeah...blurs the line between military and police...and you get a few wanna' be's in the mix, and there's a potential for abuse and overstepping legal authority.
That said, if I were on patrol, I would want a rifle...what was it that Jeff Cooper said? " A handgun is merely a weapon used to fight your way back to your rifle"?
Of course the line is blurred when we have tasked the police with fighting wars. The war against drugs, the war against terror, the war against drunk driving, the war against texting while driving, etc.
And true that about the rifle, Astro.
Yeah...blurs the line between military and police...and you get a few wanna' be's in the mix, and there's a potential for abuse and overstepping legal authority.
That said, if I were on patrol, I would want a rifle...what was it that Jeff Cooper said? " A handgun is merely a weapon used to fight your way back to your rifle"?
Of course the line is blurred when we have tasked the police with fighting wars. The war against drugs, the war against terror, the war against drunk driving, the war against texting while driving, etc.
And true that about the rifle, Astro.
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Frankly, post 9/11 the federal gov't subjicated many duties and pushed for local law enforcement to take on the role that it has. Local cops have nothing to do with ICE but we are often tasked with that role. This is what has bred the tactical nonsense you see everywhere. There is a tremendous breakdown with LE and the general public on many fronts.
For me, the most egerious is the blantant use of state police agencies to fill coffers with dollars off the general public's back for whatever traffic infraction all in the name of safety. Most of it is pure [censored]. There is a fine line between revenue generation and garnering compliance....most states are in revenue generation mode. Most are also backed heavily by the auto insurance agencies. Go figure.
That was an issue with a school police department in the Sacramento area that took a broad approach to their mission. Look up "Twin Rivers Police Department". Apparently they also dropped "School District" from their name. They were issuing lots of tows well off campus and making routine traffic stops. They were also apparently "call jumping" on calls assigned to the Sacramento Police and Sacramento Sheriff's Dept. Apparently the tows and tickets were suggested by the school board as a revenue source, but the call jumping seemed to be because they wanted action.
http://www.sacbee.com/2013/05/02/5388348/twin-rivers-school-district-hires.html
http://www.news10.net/news/article/20877...eeds-to-disband
Also - apparently several law enforcement got caught up in a sting in the area where they purchased fully automatic weapons using their LE credentials and then sold them on the black market. I can't find the original story, but here's a similar case:
http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/2-california-deputies-face-weapons-charges
Frankly, post 9/11 the federal gov't subjicated many duties and pushed for local law enforcement to take on the role that it has. Local cops have nothing to do with ICE but we are often tasked with that role. This is what has bred the tactical nonsense you see everywhere. There is a tremendous breakdown with LE and the general public on many fronts.
For me, the most egerious is the blantant use of state police agencies to fill coffers with dollars off the general public's back for whatever traffic infraction all in the name of safety. Most of it is pure [censored]. There is a fine line between revenue generation and garnering compliance....most states are in revenue generation mode. Most are also backed heavily by the auto insurance agencies. Go figure.
That was an issue with a school police department in the Sacramento area that took a broad approach to their mission. Look up "Twin Rivers Police Department". Apparently they also dropped "School District" from their name. They were issuing lots of tows well off campus and making routine traffic stops. They were also apparently "call jumping" on calls assigned to the Sacramento Police and Sacramento Sheriff's Dept. Apparently the tows and tickets were suggested by the school board as a revenue source, but the call jumping seemed to be because they wanted action.
http://www.sacbee.com/2013/05/02/5388348/twin-rivers-school-district-hires.html
http://www.news10.net/news/article/20877...eeds-to-disband
Also - apparently several law enforcement got caught up in a sting in the area where they purchased fully automatic weapons using their LE credentials and then sold them on the black market. I can't find the original story, but here's a similar case:
http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/2-california-deputies-face-weapons-charges
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Coincidentally I prefer bullet-proof vests worn under shirts, not over them. Over implies "looking for a fight."
Would you prefer police officers hide their handguns under a big tunic, too, like used to be the uniform in NY? As for the Third World appearance comments, when police in North America start being equipped with AKs, then we can talk about that.
Even if you come up here, the police officers aren't pretending to be posing for postcards and dressing the part.
Coincidentally I prefer bullet-proof vests worn under shirts, not over them. Over implies "looking for a fight."
Would you prefer police officers hide their handguns under a big tunic, too, like used to be the uniform in NY? As for the Third World appearance comments, when police in North America start being equipped with AKs, then we can talk about that.
Even if you come up here, the police officers aren't pretending to be posing for postcards and dressing the part.
Out local LEO's some time ago moved to a "paramilitary uniform" (words of the top cop in the state), yes, it's only terminology, but it shows their thoughts...
"Packs more gear than Batman's Utility Belt" would have been a reasonable descriptor, but they chose paramilitary.
Then close down the highway for 4 days with a fake roadworks trap, and ask for papers, blow in the bag, cheek swab, sniffer dogs, and at the end of it boast that they pulled over every vehicle for 4 days straight traversing the highway...
messages to the public.
"Packs more gear than Batman's Utility Belt" would have been a reasonable descriptor, but they chose paramilitary.
Then close down the highway for 4 days with a fake roadworks trap, and ask for papers, blow in the bag, cheek swab, sniffer dogs, and at the end of it boast that they pulled over every vehicle for 4 days straight traversing the highway...
messages to the public.
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Out local LEO's some time ago moved to a "paramilitary uniform" (words of the top cop in the state), yes, it's only terminology, but it shows their thoughts...
"Packs more gear than Batman's Utility Belt" would have been a reasonable descriptor, but they chose paramilitary.
Then close down the highway for 4 days with a fake roadworks trap, and ask for papers, blow in the bag, cheek swab, sniffer dogs, and at the end of it boast that they pulled over every vehicle for 4 days straight traversing the highway...
Take this one as gold! If ever you size up a cop the one with a simple handun holster, magazines, OC Spray, and handcuffs is the one that will take care of business. Sad to say but most of the newer uniforms out there with all the tacticool stuff are not well adept at taking care of business.
messages to the public.
Out local LEO's some time ago moved to a "paramilitary uniform" (words of the top cop in the state), yes, it's only terminology, but it shows their thoughts...
"Packs more gear than Batman's Utility Belt" would have been a reasonable descriptor, but they chose paramilitary.
Then close down the highway for 4 days with a fake roadworks trap, and ask for papers, blow in the bag, cheek swab, sniffer dogs, and at the end of it boast that they pulled over every vehicle for 4 days straight traversing the highway...
Take this one as gold! If ever you size up a cop the one with a simple handun holster, magazines, OC Spray, and handcuffs is the one that will take care of business. Sad to say but most of the newer uniforms out there with all the tacticool stuff are not well adept at taking care of business.
messages to the public.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Out local LEO's some time ago moved to a "paramilitary uniform" (words of the top cop in the state), yes, it's only terminology, but it shows their thoughts...
"Packs more gear than Batman's Utility Belt" would have been a reasonable descriptor, but they chose paramilitary.
Then close down the highway for 4 days with a fake roadworks trap, and ask for papers, blow in the bag, cheek swab, sniffer dogs, and at the end of it boast that they pulled over every vehicle for 4 days straight traversing the highway...
messages to the public.
I am glad that you keep posting...helps me realize that, even though our liberty is curtailed and under continual threat, that we are still among the most free nations in the world...
Out local LEO's some time ago moved to a "paramilitary uniform" (words of the top cop in the state), yes, it's only terminology, but it shows their thoughts...
"Packs more gear than Batman's Utility Belt" would have been a reasonable descriptor, but they chose paramilitary.
Then close down the highway for 4 days with a fake roadworks trap, and ask for papers, blow in the bag, cheek swab, sniffer dogs, and at the end of it boast that they pulled over every vehicle for 4 days straight traversing the highway...
messages to the public.
I am glad that you keep posting...helps me realize that, even though our liberty is curtailed and under continual threat, that we are still among the most free nations in the world...
Originally Posted By: Garak
Even if you come up here, the police officers aren't pretending to be posing for postcards and dressing the part.
Really? How do you explain this:
I've mentioned park rangers. At least in the US they're identified either as law enforcement or otherwise. And I wouldn't be surprised if many have been asked to pose for pictures. I've seen several holding some tourists camera and snapping a photo. I asked if they minded doing it as law enforcement and was told that they just consider it part of the job that comes with wearing a recognizable uniform. I've also seen mounted city police swarmed by kids who just wanted to pet the horse. My kid rather freaked out.
Even if you come up here, the police officers aren't pretending to be posing for postcards and dressing the part.
Really? How do you explain this:
I've mentioned park rangers. At least in the US they're identified either as law enforcement or otherwise. And I wouldn't be surprised if many have been asked to pose for pictures. I've seen several holding some tourists camera and snapping a photo. I asked if they minded doing it as law enforcement and was told that they just consider it part of the job that comes with wearing a recognizable uniform. I've also seen mounted city police swarmed by kids who just wanted to pet the horse. My kid rather freaked out.
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Thats a dress uniform from a Canadian Awards Show....little different than every day mounties. Last time I was in YellowKnife they were much more military style threads.
The only time I remember crossing into Canada outside of an airport was as a kid in the 80s. It was on Vancouver Island via the ferry from Port Angeles. I could have sworn the guy checking our credentials was RCMP in full ceremonial uniform. Guy was really cheery too. However, it was 1986 and they might have been doing things differently because of Expo '86.
Thats a dress uniform from a Canadian Awards Show....little different than every day mounties. Last time I was in YellowKnife they were much more military style threads.
The only time I remember crossing into Canada outside of an airport was as a kid in the 80s. It was on Vancouver Island via the ferry from Port Angeles. I could have sworn the guy checking our credentials was RCMP in full ceremonial uniform. Guy was really cheery too. However, it was 1986 and they might have been doing things differently because of Expo '86.
I don't know, I think that is a pic of Garak down at the local corner store!
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Garak
Even if you come up here, the police officers aren't pretending to be posing for postcards and dressing the part.
Really? How do you explain this:
That's only for special occasion. That's not done for running traffic enforcement, investigating murders, and so forth. Just about every police organization has a dress uniform. The RCMP's just happens to be more recognizable than most. The only one close to its pop culture visibility would be the NYPD's dress uniform.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Even if you come up here, the police officers aren't pretending to be posing for postcards and dressing the part.
Really? How do you explain this:
That's only for special occasion. That's not done for running traffic enforcement, investigating murders, and so forth. Just about every police organization has a dress uniform. The RCMP's just happens to be more recognizable than most. The only one close to its pop culture visibility would be the NYPD's dress uniform.
Originally Posted By: cp3
I don't know, I think that is a pic of Garak down at the local corner store!
I dress up like deadmau5 in public so people don't recognize me as Elvis.
I don't know, I think that is a pic of Garak down at the local corner store!
I dress up like deadmau5 in public so people don't recognize me as Elvis.
Originally Posted By: strat81
Sounds like some of you want your local officers to be wearing navy blue polyester because black cargo pants are scary.
Ummm..no...but now that you mention it, not the entire role of a Police officer is to control and intimidate, they have a community service role as well.
e.g. is a lost kid more likely to ask help of a traditional Aussie Police uniform, or a cross between Judge Dredd and Halo ?
Kids can answer for that, as there's been two kids lost in the bush in fairly recent history who hid from the people searching for them because they looked scary...
Sounds like some of you want your local officers to be wearing navy blue polyester because black cargo pants are scary.
Ummm..no...but now that you mention it, not the entire role of a Police officer is to control and intimidate, they have a community service role as well.
e.g. is a lost kid more likely to ask help of a traditional Aussie Police uniform, or a cross between Judge Dredd and Halo ?
Kids can answer for that, as there's been two kids lost in the bush in fairly recent history who hid from the people searching for them because they looked scary...
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