Just saw an assault rifle on a police motorcycle

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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: strat81
Sounds like some of you want your local officers to be wearing navy blue polyester because black cargo pants are scary.


Ummm..no...but now that you mention it, not the entire role of a Police officer is to control and intimidate, they have a community service role as well.

e.g. is a lost kid more likely to ask help of a traditional Aussie Police uniform, or a cross between Judge Dredd and Halo ?

Kids can answer for that, as there's been two kids lost in the bush in fairly recent history who hid from the people searching for them because they looked scary...

I don't know about this though:

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Apparently some motorcycle cops in Japan dress like Bond movie henchmen.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: Garak

Even if you come up here, the police officers aren't pretending to be posing for postcards and dressing the part.

Really? How do you explain this:

That's only for special occasion. That's not done for running traffic enforcement, investigating murders, and so forth. Just about every police organization has a dress uniform. The RCMP's just happens to be more recognizable than most. The only one close to its pop culture visibility would be the NYPD's dress uniform.

I was kind of kidding about it. Seriously though - the RCMP seems to provide Mounties as props for all sorts of events and not simply as color guards. Of course the officers could be thinking that posing with Drake (I saw that in another photo) is A) pretty cool and B) better than worrying about the possibility of being shot at by human traffickers. Now the previous photo showed two rather enthusiastic looking officers, but these guys almost look like they'd rather not be posing for photos with Richard Branson:

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The only time I've ever seen the uniform up close and personal was at that customs station I mentioned. It felt kind of weird though. When we got back to the US, the US Customs agent was wearing a boring looking dress shirt and looked like a bureaucrat.
 
Just saw an assault rifle on a police motorcycle
Really, I just saw a cop directing traffic that looked like he was equiped to invade a foreign country.
Just wait until its pointed at you at a checkpoint.
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
The only time I've ever seen the uniform up close and personal was at that customs station I mentioned. It felt kind of weird though. When we got back to the US, the US Customs agent was wearing a boring looking dress shirt and looked like a bureaucrat.

Like I said, look at NY's finest. Some uniforms are iconic, some aren't, I guess. Years ago, the U.S. Customs guys were the most relaxed and nicest fellows (i.e. pre-9/11). They'd see a Canadian plate and as long as you didn't "look" like trouble, you'd get waved through. Coming back to Canada, the Canadian Customs guys would want to cavity search you in case you brought back a pack of smokes or a bottle of liquor whose price wasn't over 95% made up from taxes.

Someone should email Branson about that pic and ask if he was deported from Canada.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: KenO
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I'm not really a fan... IMO cops on bikes should be "friendly" and community oriented, approachable, etc. Or, sneaky and invisible so they're on top of a crime before they're seen.

An assault rifle screams "thug", which they should save for the SWAT team or at least hide in the cruisers.

With all the locks that would have to be undone pulling up somewhere, I wonder how a cop would find good cover while messing with his stuff.



I'll agree with this. Until they can prove to the citizenry that they can be trusted to not be thugs anymore - which most can't - motorcycle police don't need that much firepower. or, really, any police.


The most dangerous street gang in the country is the police.
 
Originally Posted By: JetStar
Just saw an assault rifle on a police motorcycle
Really, I just saw a cop directing traffic that looked like he was equiped to invade a foreign country.
Just wait until its pointed at you at a checkpoint.


One of the scariest pictures I ever saw was taken by someone in a second floor apartment window. It shows a police armored personnel carrier on a city street, in a residential neighborhood. Someone in the APC is aiming what looks like a grenade launcher at the photographer.
 
Like I said in an earlier post, the police her rock the Short Barrel AR on their motorcycles. They have to, civilians like me have more firepower than they do. We also have to deal with the Mexican cartels smuggling cocaine and marijuana up the coast to the beach here. Then also grow marijuana in the mountains around here with armed guards who don't think twice about killing hikers out enjoying the scenery.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
One of the scariest pictures I ever saw was taken by someone in a second floor apartment window. It shows a police armored personnel carrier on a city street, in a residential neighborhood. Someone in the APC is aiming what looks like a grenade launcher at the photographer.


That was during the aftermath of the Boston bombing, I believe.
 
Originally Posted By: Swarmlord
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
One of the scariest pictures I ever saw was taken by someone in a second floor apartment window. It shows a police armored personnel carrier on a city street, in a residential neighborhood. Someone in the APC is aiming what looks like a grenade launcher at the photographer.


That was during the aftermath of the Boston bombing, I believe.


I think that was the pic he was referring to. As much as I am a armadillo hat wearing conspiracy theorist subscriber, there was good reason for the iron fist response.
 
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: Swarmlord
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
One of the scariest pictures I ever saw was taken by someone in a second floor apartment window. It shows a police armored personnel carrier on a city street, in a residential neighborhood. Someone in the APC is aiming what looks like a grenade launcher at the photographer.


That was during the aftermath of the Boston bombing, I believe.


I think that was the pic he was referring to. As much as I am a armadillo hat wearing conspiracy theorist subscriber, there was good reason for the iron fist response.

Teddy Roosevelt said "Those who give up liberty in the name of safety deserve neither liberty nor safety".
I see no reason for the police to be patrolling neighborhoods with grenade launchers.
Shockingly, I agree with Jarlaxle about the worst street gangs.
 
Originally Posted By: whip
Teddy Roosevelt said "Those who give up liberty in the name of safety deserve neither liberty nor safety".
I see no reason for the police to be patrolling neighborhoods with grenade launchers.
Shockingly, I agree with Jarlaxle about the worst street gangs.


They generally do not have grenade launchers. I can guarantee that was loaded with tear gas canisters, police departments generally have very little need for explosives outside of breaching tools for SWAT teams.

I am also in agreement about giving up liberty, but after the Boston bombing it was an all out manhunt for terrorists. Police in CA particularly are leery and like to have firepower especially after the North Hollywood shootout.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
The only time I've ever seen the uniform up close and personal was at that customs station I mentioned. It felt kind of weird though. When we got back to the US, the US Customs agent was wearing a boring looking dress shirt and looked like a bureaucrat.

Like I said, look at NY's finest. Some uniforms are iconic, some aren't, I guess. Years ago, the U.S. Customs guys were the most relaxed and nicest fellows (i.e. pre-9/11). They'd see a Canadian plate and as long as you didn't "look" like trouble, you'd get waved through. Coming back to Canada, the Canadian Customs guys would want to cavity search you in case you brought back a pack of smokes or a bottle of liquor whose price wasn't over 95% made up from taxes.

Someone should email Branson about that pic and ask if he was deported from Canada.
wink.gif


The most iconic police uniform to me is the California Highway Patrol basic uniform. I'm old enough to remember CHiPs.

Stop.jpg


I have never been pulled over by one in over 2 decades of driving in California. I've even had them look ticked off when drivers slowed down in front of them, and they just punch it at the next opening. However, most CHP motorcycle patrols don't work in pairs and I often see a standard leather jacket like this guy's:

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Originally Posted By: Garak
I dress up like deadmau5 in public so people don't recognize me as Elvis.


NICE! I wish you had been at the anniversary party I attended this past weekend so you could have performed instead of the Karaoke Elvis that did.
cry.gif


I like Shannow's point about the kids. I never really had an issue with the change to more practical uniforms for law enforcement but I also never considered this point. I don't know what the public relations is like in Auz but here they are in the schools once or twice a year talking to the younger kids. Don't know if that would make the change less scary or not.
 
Originally Posted By: whip
Teddy Roosevelt said "Those who give up liberty in the name of safety deserve neither liberty nor safety".

Uh - Benjamin Franklin. And most people don't quite understand what he meant by it....

Quote:
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2011/07/what-ben-franklin-really-said/

Very few people who quote these words, however, have any idea where they come from or what Franklin was really saying when he wrote them. That’s not altogether surprising, since they are far more often quoted than explained, and the context in which they arose was a political battle of limited resonance to modern readers. Many of Franklin’s biographers don’t quote them at all, and no text I have found attempts seriously to explain them in context. The result is to get to the bottom of what they meant to Franklin, one has to dig into sources from the 1750s, with the secondary biographical literature giving only a framework guide to the dispute. I’m still nailing down the details, but I can say with certainty at this stage that Franklin was not saying anything like what we quote his words to suggest.

The words appear originally in a 1755 letter that Franklin is presumed to have written on behalf of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the colonial governor during the French and Indian War. The letter was a salvo in a power struggle between the governor and the Assembly over funding for security on the frontier, one in which the Assembly wished to tax the lands of the Penn family, which ruled Pennsylvania from afar, to raise money for defense against French and Indian attacks. The governor kept vetoing the Assembly’s efforts at the behest of the family, which had appointed him. So to start matters, Franklin was writing not as a subject being asked to cede his liberty to government, but in his capacity as a legislator being asked to renounce his power to tax lands notionally under his jurisdiction. In other words, the “essential liberty” to which Franklin referred was thus not what we would think of today as civil liberties but, rather, the right of self-governance of a legislature in the interests of collective security.

What’s more the “purchase [of] a little temporary safety” of which Franklin complains was not the ceding of power to a government Leviathan in exchange for some promise of protection from external threat; for in Franklin’s letter, the word “purchase” does not appear to have been a metaphor. The governor was accusing the Assembly of stalling on appropriating money for frontier defense by insisting on including the Penn lands in its taxes–and thus triggering his intervention. And the Penn family later offered cash to fund defense of the frontier–as long as the Assembly would acknowledge that it lacked the power to tax the family’s lands. Franklin was thus complaining of the choice facing the legislature between being able to make funds available for frontier defense and maintaining its right of self-governance–and he was criticizing the governor for suggesting it should be willing to give up the latter to ensure the former.

In short, Franklin was not describing some tension between government power and individual liberty. He was describing, rather, effective self-government in the service of security as the very liberty it would be contemptible to trade. Notwithstanding the way the quotation has come down to us, Franklin saw the liberty and security interests of Pennsylvanians as aligned.
 
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Frankly, post 9/11 the federal gov't subjicated many duties and pushed for local law enforcement to take on the role that it has. Local cops have nothing to do with ICE but we are often tasked with that role. This is what has bred the tactical nonsense you see everywhere. There is a tremendous breakdown with LE and the general public on many fronts.

For me, the most egerious is the blantant use of state police agencies to fill coffers with dollars off the general public's back for whatever traffic infraction all in the name of safety. Most of it is pure [censored]. There is a fine line between revenue generation and garnering compliance....most states are in revenue generation mode. Most are also backed heavily by the auto insurance agencies. Go figure.

I hardly think the police mind getting the revenue. Police never get a budget cut.. Anyone even suggests it, gets bashed meanwhile, we cut every other public program, such as schools to the bone. I drove by the County Sherriff dept. Yard the other day they had speedboats, airboats and even nicely detailed and painted tractor trailers, seriously, what do they need to own tractor trailers for? What do or how much do they move that they couldn't be cheaper to rent. Police depts. have insane budgets. They biggest reason, they delve into all the tactical stuff, they can and "Its cool".
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Frankly, post 9/11 the federal gov't subjicated many duties and pushed for local law enforcement to take on the role that it has. Local cops have nothing to do with ICE but we are often tasked with that role. This is what has bred the tactical nonsense you see everywhere. There is a tremendous breakdown with LE and the general public on many fronts.

For me, the most egerious is the blantant use of state police agencies to fill coffers with dollars off the general public's back for whatever traffic infraction all in the name of safety. Most of it is pure [censored]. There is a fine line between revenue generation and garnering compliance....most states are in revenue generation mode. Most are also backed heavily by the auto insurance agencies. Go figure.

I hardly think the police mind getting the revenue. Police never get a budget cut.. Anyone even suggests it, gets bashed meanwhile, we cut every other public program, such as schools to the bone. I drove by the County Sherriff dept. Yard the other day they had speedboats, airboats and even nicely detailed and painted tractor trailers, seriously, what do they need to own tractor trailers for? What do or how much do they move that they couldn't be cheaper to rent. Police depts. have insane budgets. They biggest reason, they delve into all the tactical stuff, they can and "Its cool".


Sir, GET A GRIP! My dept is in Westchester County NY one of the most affluent in the country. We lost 13% of our sworn personnel. We have 54 cops including chief on down and handle 30k calls for service a year and 1800 arrests per year. Paint your FL dept any way you seem fit but do NOT paint the rest of us. To compare cops and schools, at least where I live....insane. My school tax bill is 11k plus! THAT IS SCHOOL ALONE buddy! What are you paying????

Lets not loose the fact that you in FL also NEED a lot more enforcement that any state in the NorthEast. FL has a milion gated communities for a reason....you have a horrid economy and an insatiable crime issue.

I wanted to ADD: Not A SINGLE guy I work with became a cop to generate revenue...around here those are called troopers. We don't have the luxury of waiting for a mere traffic infraction.
 
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Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I hardly think the police mind getting the revenue. Police never get a budget cut.. Anyone even suggests it, gets bashed meanwhile, we cut every other public program, such as schools to the bone. I drove by the County Sherriff dept. Yard the other day they had speedboats, airboats and even nicely detailed and painted tractor trailers, seriously, what do they need to own tractor trailers for? What do or how much do they move that they couldn't be cheaper to rent. Police depts. have insane budgets. They biggest reason, they delve into all the tactical stuff, they can and "Its cool".

Around here we get budget cuts across the board all the time. Several cities in the San Francisco Bay Area have decided to eliminate their police departments and contract out to the county. The city of Oakland has a huge shortage of personnel and issues with officers graduating from their academy and deciding to leave once their commitment is up. It's gotten to the point where the CHP is providing officers for regular police patrols in residential areas and not traffic enforcement.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_21250140/police-cuts-rumors-easy-targets-fuel-bay-area

My worry about the firepower on a motorcycle wasn't necessarily because I thought it was a show of force or the cost of the equipment. It was that it seemed a little bit too easy for anyone to just reach it and maybe try to steal it. And as it was, apparently some kids had managed to fire off a weapon in a similar setup in Southern California.
 
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