warped a new set of rotors on Subaru wagon after torquing lugs to max spec. Loosened lugnuts, retightened to min spec and warp went away. Now I torque to mid spec and no more problems. Helps if mating surfaces are clean.
Just pads this time?
- Thread starter Hollow
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Originally Posted By: Hollow
Thanks for all the suggestions. Due to the amount of rust, I'm probably going to replace the rotors as well, before they rust to the hubs. Amazing how much rust you can develop in 2-3 years when your car stays on the street year round in the rust belt...
Maybe look into the Centric Premiums. they have a nice electrodeposited coating on non-contact (with the pads) surfaces
Thanks for all the suggestions. Due to the amount of rust, I'm probably going to replace the rotors as well, before they rust to the hubs. Amazing how much rust you can develop in 2-3 years when your car stays on the street year round in the rust belt...
Maybe look into the Centric Premiums. they have a nice electrodeposited coating on non-contact (with the pads) surfaces
Why do people cling to the myth of warped brake discs?
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths
http://raceshopper.com/tech.shtml#warped_rotors
Here's a very good bed-in procedure for new pads:
http://stoptech.com/technical-support/te...-and-procedures
http://raceshopper.com/tech.shtml#bedding
As well said above, take a good look at the discs. If they aren't grooved or significantly thinned, I'd reuse them. I would take them off and sandpaper both sides to remove the deposits from the previous pads and allow for new bed-in as described above.
Good installation guide:
http://raceshopper.com/how_to_install_brakes.shtml
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths
http://raceshopper.com/tech.shtml#warped_rotors
Here's a very good bed-in procedure for new pads:
http://stoptech.com/technical-support/te...-and-procedures
http://raceshopper.com/tech.shtml#bedding
As well said above, take a good look at the discs. If they aren't grooved or significantly thinned, I'd reuse them. I would take them off and sandpaper both sides to remove the deposits from the previous pads and allow for new bed-in as described above.
Good installation guide:
http://raceshopper.com/how_to_install_brakes.shtml
You don't have to do exactly that. Do what works where you are. Get them hot and and get some braking in with the pressure on. Don't pump. Don't stop while they're hot.
In some places that means that, yes, you have to get out of town because you can't get up to speed. You can explain what you're doing to cops and they'll probably listen. Explain to your brakes what you're not doing and they won't even know you're talking because they don't have ears.
In some places that means that, yes, you have to get out of town because you can't get up to speed. You can explain what you're doing to cops and they'll probably listen. Explain to your brakes what you're not doing and they won't even know you're talking because they don't have ears.
Originally Posted By: Hollow
I wonder, for those of us living (or stuck in) the city...how on earth are you supposed to follow the bed-in procedures?
10 60-10 MPH runs...where exactly? Interstate at 3am and hope not to get pulled over for drunk driving?
Depends on the pad. Hawk pads... yes. My akebonos just require a little time and driving to properly bed in.
I wonder, for those of us living (or stuck in) the city...how on earth are you supposed to follow the bed-in procedures?
10 60-10 MPH runs...where exactly? Interstate at 3am and hope not to get pulled over for drunk driving?
Depends on the pad. Hawk pads... yes. My akebonos just require a little time and driving to properly bed in.
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: Hollow
I wonder, for those of us living (or stuck in) the city...how on earth are you supposed to follow the bed-in procedures?
10 60-10 MPH runs...where exactly? Interstate at 3am and hope not to get pulled over for drunk driving?
Depends on the pad. Hawk pads... yes. My akebonos just require a little time and driving to properly bed in.
This also raises the question: If you can't get the pads hot enough to bed-in, are you using pads suitable for your driving conditions?
Originally Posted By: Hollow
I wonder, for those of us living (or stuck in) the city...how on earth are you supposed to follow the bed-in procedures?
10 60-10 MPH runs...where exactly? Interstate at 3am and hope not to get pulled over for drunk driving?
Depends on the pad. Hawk pads... yes. My akebonos just require a little time and driving to properly bed in.
This also raises the question: If you can't get the pads hot enough to bed-in, are you using pads suitable for your driving conditions?
Originally Posted By: Ken2
Why do people cling to the myth of warped brake discs?
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths
http://raceshopper.com/tech.shtml#warped_rotors
Here's a very good bed-in procedure for new pads:
http://stoptech.com/technical-support/te...-and-procedures
http://raceshopper.com/tech.shtml#bedding
As well said above, take a good look at the discs. If they aren't grooved or significantly thinned, I'd reuse them. I would take them off and sandpaper both sides to remove the deposits from the previous pads and allow for new bed-in as described above.
Good installation guide:
http://raceshopper.com/how_to_install_brakes.shtml
Well, you could also ask why people cling to the myth of pad deposits, as there's even more than just brake pad deposits that can cause pedal pulsation. I'm sure pad deposits are the issue sometimes, but it's not as simple as every pedal pulsation being caused by pad deposits.
Runout in the hub or rotor can cause the rotor to wear unevenly, leading the thickness variation. That, too, will cause pedal pulsation.
More info on this (and other possible causes of pedal pulsation) in this doc from Raybestos:
http://www.raybestos.com/wps/wcm/connect...pdf?MOD=AJPERES
EDIT -
I just read this on one of the pages you linked to. Stoptech's Carroll Smith admits other things can cause pedal pulsation:
Quote:
With one qualifier, presuming that the hub and wheel flange are flat and in good condition and that the wheel bolts or hat mounting hardware is in good condition, installed correctly and tightened uniformly and in the correct order to the recommended torque specification, in more than 40 years of professional racing, including the Shelby/Ford GT 40s – one of the most intense brake development program in history - I have never seen a warped brake disc.
He's basically saying "warped rotors don't cause pedal pulsation, brake pad deposits cause pulsation...except for all the other things that can cause brake pulsation, too."
Why do people cling to the myth of warped brake discs?
http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths
http://raceshopper.com/tech.shtml#warped_rotors
Here's a very good bed-in procedure for new pads:
http://stoptech.com/technical-support/te...-and-procedures
http://raceshopper.com/tech.shtml#bedding
As well said above, take a good look at the discs. If they aren't grooved or significantly thinned, I'd reuse them. I would take them off and sandpaper both sides to remove the deposits from the previous pads and allow for new bed-in as described above.
Good installation guide:
http://raceshopper.com/how_to_install_brakes.shtml
Well, you could also ask why people cling to the myth of pad deposits, as there's even more than just brake pad deposits that can cause pedal pulsation. I'm sure pad deposits are the issue sometimes, but it's not as simple as every pedal pulsation being caused by pad deposits.
Runout in the hub or rotor can cause the rotor to wear unevenly, leading the thickness variation. That, too, will cause pedal pulsation.
More info on this (and other possible causes of pedal pulsation) in this doc from Raybestos:
http://www.raybestos.com/wps/wcm/connect...pdf?MOD=AJPERES
EDIT -
I just read this on one of the pages you linked to. Stoptech's Carroll Smith admits other things can cause pedal pulsation:
Quote:
With one qualifier, presuming that the hub and wheel flange are flat and in good condition and that the wheel bolts or hat mounting hardware is in good condition, installed correctly and tightened uniformly and in the correct order to the recommended torque specification, in more than 40 years of professional racing, including the Shelby/Ford GT 40s – one of the most intense brake development program in history - I have never seen a warped brake disc.
He's basically saying "warped rotors don't cause pedal pulsation, brake pad deposits cause pulsation...except for all the other things that can cause brake pulsation, too."
I don't think Carroll Smith ever worked for Stoptech.
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
I don't think Carroll Smith ever worked for Stoptech.
You may be right, but he's the claimed author of the article posted on the Stoptech website.
I don't think Carroll Smith ever worked for Stoptech.
You may be right, but he's the claimed author of the article posted on the Stoptech website.
In my experience, by the time the rotor's second set of brake pads wears out, the rotor surface is pretty beat up. So normally I'd say you definitely need to change rotors every second brake job. Personally, I prefer to change rotors every time I change a set of worn out brake pads. Otherwise, the last 25% of life of the rotors they're don't perform at their best. This increases the cost of the brake job by $100-120 per axle, but I think stopping well is well worth this price.
I like my Wagner TQ ceramic brake pads. They seem to work the way a premium street brake pad should. Good stopping power and pedal feel. For my car, the came with a rare FG friction rating (FF is more common).
I like my Wagner TQ ceramic brake pads. They seem to work the way a premium street brake pad should. Good stopping power and pedal feel. For my car, the came with a rare FG friction rating (FF is more common).
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: Hollow
Thanks for all the suggestions. Due to the amount of rust, I'm probably going to replace the rotors as well, before they rust to the hubs. Amazing how much rust you can develop in 2-3 years when your car stays on the street year round in the rust belt...
Maybe look into the Centric Premiums. they have a nice electrodeposited coating on non-contact (with the pads) surfaces
I'd suggest Raybestos Advanced Technology Rotors or the Napa "Ultra Premium" equivalent over the Centric Premiums; had a run-out/pulsation issue that cleared up using Raybestos AT rotors (I reused the pads, Bendix CT-3, and it's been 10k+ miles same driving style so I don't feel it's pad deposits). Besides my past experience with Centric Premiums that I could not get consistent casting origins (on more than one occasion with previous orders on different vehicles, I received rotors from China and Taiwan with the Taiwan rotors appearing to be better quality), the coating on the Raybestos AT seems to have held up much better in 10k than the Centric's did.
To the OP, when you take the rotors off the hubs, make sure to thoroughly clean any rust off the hubs as to prevent any run-out issues with the rotors to the hub. Wire brush, 3M roloc or sandpaper it but get those hubs nice and clean.
Originally Posted By: Hollow
Thanks for all the suggestions. Due to the amount of rust, I'm probably going to replace the rotors as well, before they rust to the hubs. Amazing how much rust you can develop in 2-3 years when your car stays on the street year round in the rust belt...
Maybe look into the Centric Premiums. they have a nice electrodeposited coating on non-contact (with the pads) surfaces
I'd suggest Raybestos Advanced Technology Rotors or the Napa "Ultra Premium" equivalent over the Centric Premiums; had a run-out/pulsation issue that cleared up using Raybestos AT rotors (I reused the pads, Bendix CT-3, and it's been 10k+ miles same driving style so I don't feel it's pad deposits). Besides my past experience with Centric Premiums that I could not get consistent casting origins (on more than one occasion with previous orders on different vehicles, I received rotors from China and Taiwan with the Taiwan rotors appearing to be better quality), the coating on the Raybestos AT seems to have held up much better in 10k than the Centric's did.
To the OP, when you take the rotors off the hubs, make sure to thoroughly clean any rust off the hubs as to prevent any run-out issues with the rotors to the hub. Wire brush, 3M roloc or sandpaper it but get those hubs nice and clean.
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