My Mazda CX7 turbo just states a 5w30 oil but, I sleep well when I use PP synthetic 5w30 and follow their 5 or 7.5 K oil change interval. I do it myself and it costs me about $35 for oil & filter at walmart for my 6 quart system. ED
Is using Dino a NO NO in a Turbo?
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Originally Posted By: RamAir5
Kia recommends a 3k OCI for the turbo 2.0 engine. I have heard they are pretty hard line when it comes to warranty work. Extended OCIs are not an option. That, in a nutshell, is the reason for my original question. Is 3k OCI on a good quality conventional the same as a 5k or 6k OCI on synthetic? If so, I'm gonna go with conventional. 3k OCI on synthetic seems expensive.
Their online info shows 3000 miles at first, then every 5,000 miles for the 2.0 Turbo. API SM or better, no specific requirement for synthetic.
This is all for normal service, severe service calls for changes at 3,750 after the initial change.
Kia recommends a 3k OCI for the turbo 2.0 engine. I have heard they are pretty hard line when it comes to warranty work. Extended OCIs are not an option. That, in a nutshell, is the reason for my original question. Is 3k OCI on a good quality conventional the same as a 5k or 6k OCI on synthetic? If so, I'm gonna go with conventional. 3k OCI on synthetic seems expensive.
Their online info shows 3000 miles at first, then every 5,000 miles for the 2.0 Turbo. API SM or better, no specific requirement for synthetic.
This is all for normal service, severe service calls for changes at 3,750 after the initial change.
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
Originally Posted By: TurboTravis
I'm late to this party....
I'm making seven, yes seven hp per cubic inch (122 cubic inch, over 800 crank hp) on conventional oil (VR1 20W50). Done this for the last two 'seasons' (car is driven fall/spring/summer) with NO issues. See my recent UOA on this forum!
Also remember that 18-wheelers are all turbo'ed and there engines run MILLIONS of miles on Rotella (or similar) 15W40's..
(very tired, sorry for any errors)
Thank you for clarifying and VERIFYING my remarks about 20W-50 in a turbo, CONVENTIONAL, if you so wanted to use that. People thought i was being facetious (actually meaner than that, with a picture of a fishing rod, hmm) when i said some use 20W-50 conventional in their turbos. Seems i will never get an apology, either.
TurboTrav i am curious: What kind of car? And what kind of mods get you THAT many HP? Sounds like a Supra 7MGTE i have experience with that one.......... or Lingenfelter Turbo Vette
LOL man, read closer...I said 122 cubic inches. It's a Mitsubishi Evolution
Originally Posted By: TurboTravis
I'm late to this party....
I'm making seven, yes seven hp per cubic inch (122 cubic inch, over 800 crank hp) on conventional oil (VR1 20W50). Done this for the last two 'seasons' (car is driven fall/spring/summer) with NO issues. See my recent UOA on this forum!
Also remember that 18-wheelers are all turbo'ed and there engines run MILLIONS of miles on Rotella (or similar) 15W40's..
(very tired, sorry for any errors)
Thank you for clarifying and VERIFYING my remarks about 20W-50 in a turbo, CONVENTIONAL, if you so wanted to use that. People thought i was being facetious (actually meaner than that, with a picture of a fishing rod, hmm) when i said some use 20W-50 conventional in their turbos. Seems i will never get an apology, either.
TurboTrav i am curious: What kind of car? And what kind of mods get you THAT many HP? Sounds like a Supra 7MGTE i have experience with that one.......... or Lingenfelter Turbo Vette
LOL man, read closer...I said 122 cubic inches. It's a Mitsubishi Evolution
To the OP: I would use a syn or syn-blend oil. The 2.0T-GDi engine is fantastic, but most likely very hard on oil. Direct injection and a turbo! From what we have seen in VW/Audi engines, fuel dilution may be a problem. A conventional oil with the potential for high heat, may lead to valve deposit issues down the road. I would run any 5w-30, 0w-30, 5w-40, 0w-40 that has the best NOACK rating. Mobil 1 0w-40 might be an excellent choice...
OP, I don't know how you drive, what you OCI's are an so on. But, I can assure you of this: The turbine side of a turbocharger gets hot enough to coke conventional oil. Especially when driven hard. Oil coolers matter not. Oil temperature matters not. Oil change intervals help somewhat, but they certainly don't prevent conventional oil from coking on the turbo hot side.
I mentioned that modern, water cooled turbo's are somewhat tolerant of coking. This does not mean you should use conventional oil because others are doing it with good results. Understand that coking is still going on with conventional oil use. It's simply designed to operate properly with some coking.
Just because people are making 4000HP with a super large turbo using conventional oil does not mean that the same will work for you. Your production turbo is very small, operates at higher RPM, is much less tolerant of coking, and you will be using the turbo to capacity much more often. Plus, it's likely you will expect a 200,000 mile lifespan.
Trucks are different. The larger turbo's on diesels do not have oil anywhere near as close to the hot section. Also, peak temps are lower (that's what fries the oil). Oil flow rates are different too.
I mentioned that modern, water cooled turbo's are somewhat tolerant of coking. This does not mean you should use conventional oil because others are doing it with good results. Understand that coking is still going on with conventional oil use. It's simply designed to operate properly with some coking.
Just because people are making 4000HP with a super large turbo using conventional oil does not mean that the same will work for you. Your production turbo is very small, operates at higher RPM, is much less tolerant of coking, and you will be using the turbo to capacity much more often. Plus, it's likely you will expect a 200,000 mile lifespan.
Trucks are different. The larger turbo's on diesels do not have oil anywhere near as close to the hot section. Also, peak temps are lower (that's what fries the oil). Oil flow rates are different too.
Thanks for everyone's input. The consensus seems to be tilted towards using synthetic over dino. I think I will spend the extra money and use synthetic. It's a fun car to drive and it's hard to not put your foot into the gas.
We plan on keeping this incredible car for a while, so I guess synthetic gets the nod.
We plan on keeping this incredible car for a while, so I guess synthetic gets the nod.
I would never run less than full synthetic in a turbo engine, no matter what the vehicle manual said.
I worked with many Volvo turbo cars that allowed non synthetic and were filled with it. Even with 3,000 mile oil changes, the engine was full of heavy varnish.
Also, the reason many diesels run non-synthetic and work fine with it is because the exhaust gas temperature of a diesel engine is always lower than a gasoline engine. High heat is why turbo engines stress oil.
I worked with many Volvo turbo cars that allowed non synthetic and were filled with it. Even with 3,000 mile oil changes, the engine was full of heavy varnish.
Also, the reason many diesels run non-synthetic and work fine with it is because the exhaust gas temperature of a diesel engine is always lower than a gasoline engine. High heat is why turbo engines stress oil.
wemay
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This can be argued til the end of the internal cumbustion engine. All i know is that Mitsubishi USA/JDM (not the dealerships mind you, the manufacturer)require conventional API SN 5w30 oil in the Lancer Ralliarts/Gallant Fortis from 09-present. Is synthetic recomended at the dealer? Yes. But if you are not driving at the track, heavily modified or stop light racing every chance you get, conventional oil IS FINE at 3k-4k oci. I can give you 2 examples of old school guys at the shop i frequent with EVO8 and EVO9 that only run Pennzoil yellow bottle 5w30 in their slightly modded cars. Each has more than 80k on the odometer and the cars run flawlessly and have great UOA (they have brought them to the shop countless times). I would rather own their cars, that have conventional oil changed every 4k miles faithfully, than the 500 stressed hp car the enthusiat owns that runs 'full synthetic' every 7500 give or take. Choose whatever workds for you and be responsible with your choice. There is no right or wrong.
I thought about going conventional but decided not to yet...could still change in the future.
I thought about going conventional but decided not to yet...could still change in the future.
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i have 2 twin turbo cars with water cooled turbos and i would never even consider dino oil. the extra cost of a syn is not worth the worry about a oil. i use amsoil in one and red line in the other.. i dont know any suby or evo owners who use dino oil.. and i know a few
wemay
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Originally Posted By: mcshooter
i have 2 twin turbo cars with water cooled turbos and i would never even consider dino oil. the extra cost of a syn is not worth the worry about a oil. i use amsoil in one and red line in the other.. i dont know any suby or evo owners who use dino oil.. and i know a few
Like I wrote, to each their own. No wrong or right when using either responsibly. 3-5k, pyb; 5-10k pp or pu. As for evos running conventional? Visit some of the forums and you will not only find them but also see UOA using said conventional oil. Good UOA at that. I know one or two Subie owners who do the same, no issue, although I've never seen a uoa for their cars. Both sides need to stop projecting their extreme beliefs, I.e, 'use of conventional oils will blow up your turbo' or, 'synthetics are a complete waist of money'. Use what you want, send for a UOA and if its a good result, continue doing what you've been doing.
i have 2 twin turbo cars with water cooled turbos and i would never even consider dino oil. the extra cost of a syn is not worth the worry about a oil. i use amsoil in one and red line in the other.. i dont know any suby or evo owners who use dino oil.. and i know a few
Like I wrote, to each their own. No wrong or right when using either responsibly. 3-5k, pyb; 5-10k pp or pu. As for evos running conventional? Visit some of the forums and you will not only find them but also see UOA using said conventional oil. Good UOA at that. I know one or two Subie owners who do the same, no issue, although I've never seen a uoa for their cars. Both sides need to stop projecting their extreme beliefs, I.e, 'use of conventional oils will blow up your turbo' or, 'synthetics are a complete waist of money'. Use what you want, send for a UOA and if its a good result, continue doing what you've been doing.
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During the warranty period FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS PRINTED IN THE OWNER'S MANUAL.
Especially when it comes to Hyundai and Kia as they can be VERY difficult when it comes to getting them to honor their warranty.
In your case as long as the oil meets the specs of Hyundai/Kia stick with them. I would personally USE any synthetic with the best NOACK number like others have mentioned due to the Direct Injection factor as well.
Especially when it comes to Hyundai and Kia as they can be VERY difficult when it comes to getting them to honor their warranty.
In your case as long as the oil meets the specs of Hyundai/Kia stick with them. I would personally USE any synthetic with the best NOACK number like others have mentioned due to the Direct Injection factor as well.
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wemay
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Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: Hoosier_Daddy
look through the UOA's. i've seen excellent results in turbocharged cars on both GTX as well as PYB.
I bet you're not seeing all the deposits/varnish building up from a UOA.
I've seen an Evo engine opened for a cam install that ran conventional Pennzoil YB for years... Clean as a whistle. Seen the turbo as well. Same result. No varnish, sludge, deposits...nothing. I have also seen both conventional and synthetic run turbos WITH varnish etc. Every application is different.
The moral here: change your oil regularly.
Originally Posted By: Hoosier_Daddy
look through the UOA's. i've seen excellent results in turbocharged cars on both GTX as well as PYB.
I bet you're not seeing all the deposits/varnish building up from a UOA.
I've seen an Evo engine opened for a cam install that ran conventional Pennzoil YB for years... Clean as a whistle. Seen the turbo as well. Same result. No varnish, sludge, deposits...nothing. I have also seen both conventional and synthetic run turbos WITH varnish etc. Every application is different.
The moral here: change your oil regularly.
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
From oilspecifications.org concerning API SN
Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control systemcompatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.
Introduced in October 2010 for 2011 and older vehicles, designed to provide improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons, more stringent sludge control, and seal compatibility. API SN with Resource Conserving matches ILSAC GF-5 by combining API SN performance with improved fuel economy, turbocharger protection, emission control systemcompatibility, and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.
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Originally Posted By: RamAir5
I have posted before that I have a new Optima Turbo. I am trying to wrap my head around the need for Synthetic Oil in this car.
The manual recommends any SM or higher rated oil in 5w-30 or 5w-40 flavors.
I plan on 3000 mile OCIs due to it being Turbo. Is using a good Dino, like QS, Pennzoil or GTX a NO NO in a new turbo with a 3000 mile OCI? I know turbos are tough on oil, but are tough on the "newer" dino oils? Back in the day I had a '87 turbo dodge shelby charger and ran straight 30 weight dino and never had any issues. Have turbos changed that much in the last 25 years?
Straight 30 weight? whoa! I had an 84 Laser XE turbo (loved that car, wish I still had it) and I used PYB or GTX 10W30.
I have posted before that I have a new Optima Turbo. I am trying to wrap my head around the need for Synthetic Oil in this car.
The manual recommends any SM or higher rated oil in 5w-30 or 5w-40 flavors.
I plan on 3000 mile OCIs due to it being Turbo. Is using a good Dino, like QS, Pennzoil or GTX a NO NO in a new turbo with a 3000 mile OCI? I know turbos are tough on oil, but are tough on the "newer" dino oils? Back in the day I had a '87 turbo dodge shelby charger and ran straight 30 weight dino and never had any issues. Have turbos changed that much in the last 25 years?
Straight 30 weight? whoa! I had an 84 Laser XE turbo (loved that car, wish I still had it) and I used PYB or GTX 10W30.
You can run either or as long as you change the oil frequent enough.
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