Is this the begining of clutch failure?

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needsducktape

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Hello-

I recently purchased a Toyota Solara v6 w 5 speed manual. I bought it with 110K on the ode. and it was a one owner very well taken care of car. -Every oil change and service is on record.

Over the last few days I have noticed that at very low RPMs the car is very "bumpy" for lack of a better word.
As I accelerate, the car is silky smooth, and it get outstanding gas mileage for a v6. -Again this is only noticeable at low rpm while in gear. -Cruising speed it fine and any sort of acceleration is normal as any other car I have driven.

I do not smell clutch burn, no leaks or drips under the car. Also the actual shifting is smooth; does not grind one bit going into any gear including reverse.



Any ideas? Is the clutch slipping at low RPM? I have owned 10 plus manual cars over the years and I have never blown a clutch so I am not even sure what to look for.
 
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If clutch is going to slip, it will slip at higher RPM; not at lower RPM.

Are you telling us that the car is hard to drive and "bucks" when in low gear and at low rpm? If so, once you get used to this car, you will be able to modulate the gas pedal to better control the car.

You can find if your clutch is slipping but then you will reducing its life by that test. You will have ample warning if you look for engine rpm going up but not your speed. You could drive thousands of miles even after the clutch starts first slipping if you are careful.

Given you have experience of 10+ manual cars, I don't think you need to worry.

- Vikas
 
Usually, a dying clutch signals itself with slip.
For example, if you try to accelerate hard in the higher gears from lower road speeds, the engine will rev up while road speed increases only slowly.
Now, you can milk many miles out of a slipping clutch with careful driving.
Based upon what you've posted, I don't think you have a clutch problem.
Maybe a worn engine or transaxle mount?
More likely an ignition problem.
Is this car on its original plugs?
Is it on its original wires?
Either or both could be causing a misfire at low engine speeds.
I was once told by an experienced mech that low speed misfires are caused by the plugs, while high speed misfires, as well as no start in cold, damp weather conditions are caused by the wires.
Maybe take a plug out and see how it looks?
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Over the last few days I have noticed that at very low RPMs the car is very "bumpy" for lack of a better word.

Is it a shudder/vibration type feel? If so, your flywheel may need to be resurfaced or replaced.

http://www.summitracing.com/expertadvice/storydetail/howtos/How-to-Diagnose-Common-Clutch-Problems/





+1 Sounds like the clutch plate and flywheel have some heat glazing. Are the symptoms more pronounced when you first drive the car in the morning, and do they seem to disappear after you drive for a while?
 
Sounds like you may be in a gear to high and the engine is in to low of r.p.m range looking for a better word here but bucking is all i can come up with. I know in my car if i'm in say third gear and let the car slow right down it will start to lurch.I don't know if this helps any or not?
 
Some clutches chatter a bit during take off, and bleeding the system might help. Once in gear you can usually tell by the tach if it is slipping, it should not slip or chatter in gear. I'd check the engine and tranny mounts before doing anything else including this test. A test to see if the clutch is slipping would be to drive up to about 35 mph, shift into 5th release the clutch and floor the gas pedal. Watch the tach if its slipping you'll know.
 
Are you just referring to chatter?
That is normal as the flywheel polishes up over time. Down the road when you replace the clutch and resurface or replace the flywheel it will be good as new again.

BUT that does not equal clutch failure. Could have another 100K in it. When it starts to slip you have X amount of time.
 
Originally Posted By: SLCraig
Are you just referring to chatter?
That is normal as the flywheel polishes up over time. Down the road when you replace the clutch and resurface or replace the flywheel it will be good as new again.

BUT that does not equal clutch failure. Could have another 100K in it. When it starts to slip you have X amount of time.


Good point. A trick that once in a while can fix a chattering clutch is to start up the engine, hold the brake firm, and with the car idling in first release the clutch and stall the vehicle. A chattering clutch doesn't always mean the clutch is spent.
 
Spark plugs are just about due - But my gas mileage is in the upper 20s. Also if there was a misfire wouldn't I get a Check engine light?

THe closest I could describe the lurching would be like trying to drive the car in 5th gear from a stand still.

I drove it again tonight and I can say that this lurching is NOT related to speed rather to RPM - anything 2k and lower and I will feel a gentle BUT NOTICEABLE lurching.

Engine revs smooth- syncros seem perfect. Accelrating and cruising speeds are 100% normal.

I'm thinking its the flywheel. But I am curious to know how the motormounts may play a role?
 
Nothing is wrong with the Car, Thats the way Toyotas are , they like to be driven hard like an Audi, My Wife's Toyota RAV4 with the manual tranny has been like that from day one from the factory, just give it a little more gas on take off.

Like the others have said, you notice a weak clutch at high rpm not low.

You are not balancing your Gas to pedal play on take off.

Good luck with your Solara, its a beautiful car.

BTW Toyota was sued for this prob in the Tacomas causing whiplash and all.
 
You may have a dirty throttle body, analagous to a slightly sticky gas pedal. It does not take much to affect you in low gear because of the torque multiplication. You may also be driving on the cusp of computer idle control vs let the driver decide-- when it sees you "off idle" it opens the idle air bypass all the way for emissions "dashpot" reasons.

I also like the motor mount idea. It's easy to get into a feedback loop where the powertrain is bouncing back and forth, amplifying the lurchiness.
 
If I sit on 2k RPMS the car lurches but RPM gauge is solid at 2k -not even a little wobble.

27mpgs out of my last tank-

2K RPMS is far from an idle - I sit on low RPMs on my other manual tranny's and I do not get the bouncing feeling.

I'm starting to think it may be the mounts too
 
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
If I sit on 2k RPMS the car lurches but RPM gauge is solid at 2k -not even a little wobble.

27mpgs out of my last tank-

2K RPMS is far from an idle - I sit on low RPMs on my other manual tranny's and I do not get the bouncing feeling.

I'm starting to think it may be the mounts too


Sounds like it or something ignition.

One way to check if the clutch needs bleeding is to push the clutch in 3/4 or more (75+% to the floor) and see if you can move into all 5 gears without feeling any grabbing or the forks hitting the sychros. i.e. it should feel zero resistance in the stick. If there is no resistance, the clutch is fine.

I generally flush out the fluid every 3-4 years completely since it is brake fluid and ages. This keeps the clutch master and slave seals like new.
 
Just an FYI My mechanic thinks its the Valves (worst case scenario) or the ERG valve (10 minutes and some carb cleaner) the reason I haven't checked the 2nd (takes about 10 minutes to remove the air plumbing after all...) is that I have been in the process of moving to another state.
 
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