Is there such a thing as a simple car anymore

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Hmmm, my car mfgr date 05 had HID's standard. It has stability control/traction control but it is easily disabled with a push of a button for those who wish to risk their own and others safety.

Overkill said it all, as long as the features are properly integrated and easily operated then they become conveniences and are not intrusive on your driver experience. Despite the extensive list of OEM stuff on this car it has proven dead reliable even in severe service.

While shopping for my new truck this year I specifically avoided the lane keeping and collision avoidance systems. I'll drive, thank you...
 
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What I hate is variable valve timing. You have to run thin oil or the system won't work.



Well since your entire statement is incorrect you can now rethink your position.
Having used 0w-40 grades in Hemi engines with both systems I'm pleased to inform you that neither system is hindered using a 0w-40 even though a 20 grade is specified.

If you'd have even thought about it for a split second you would realize a vvt/mds equipped engine at cold start up with the prescribed 20 grade the cold oil in the sump is exponentially thicker than a 0w-40 is hot,yet those systems operate just fine with cold thick oil,so it stands to reason hot thin oil won't be an issue.
Now you've been informed though I doubt any absorbtion will occur
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

While shopping for my new truck this year I specifically avoided the lane keeping and collision avoidance systems. I'll drive, thank you...


But how are you going to text and drive? Facebook and drive? Selfie and drive!?!?!?!?
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

While shopping for my new truck this year I specifically avoided the lane keeping and collision avoidance systems. I'll drive, thank you...


But how are you going to text and drive? Facebook and drive? Selfie and drive!?!?!?!?


Have you seen the head unit in the new Rams? It's all voice operated, no hands required. My Wife can text me and it says down at the bottom "Sent from My Ram"...
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
I actually am quite fond of a lot of those things, LOL!
wink.gif
The auto up/down windows are a real treat, the climate control is fantastic, you never need to touch it, and the heated memory power seats are beautiful to sit in for long drives and offer exceptional bolstered comfort when pushing the car.

The wheel mounted controls mean my eyes never need to leave the road to change a song or adjust the cruise (a plus in my books).

I appreciate the idea of a stripper (my buddy has owned a few Mustangs that way and my F-250 was that way) but at the same time, if you have a proper array of features that aren't intrusive and are well integrated they can be a bonus to you if you do a lot of driving. Some of them probably more so in a sedan than a roadster of course, but I can't deny I'm fond of the convenience of these things in application.

Touch screen, back-up cameras and lane control? No, not in a "drivers car". Those are frills that add no convenience and do in fact take away from the "experience" of driving IMHO. So I agree with you there.

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
S2000 has 1 feature that no car in its price range had in early 2000's as standard that is HID headlight. I do like the very bright and wide that light up the country roads that no halogen headlight can match.


Yes, the HID's are a fantastic feature! Are yours auto-levelling? They are particularly, as you noted, beneficial on country roads at night
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No, it doesn't have auto-leveling. Probably because it's fairly complicate and expensive to implement so Honda didn't incorporate that feature in S2000, at least in USA they don't have it but they may have this feature in Europe along with headlight washer/wiper. I do think they should if the extra cost was less than $1k.

The auto up/down power windows are okay in a 4-dr sedan or SUV, but isn't needed in a small roaster, less weight and less parts to break.

My E430 has auto/manual dual zone climate control but I almost always use manual mode. I'm glad Honda uses simple manual HAC control in the S2000.

S2000 and most other Honda's vehicles have very simple and clearly marked cruise control on steering wheel. They are very easy to operate and I use it a lot on highway.

There are few buttons and knobs for the stereo on the left pod, the controls for manual HAC are on the right pod, they are fairly easy to reach because they are only 5-6" from the wheel steering.

There is 1 feature available with the E430 that I like but missing in the S2000 and most Honda vehicles; it is passenger side mirror tilt in and down when you are in reverse gear, this does help the driver seeing the curb when doing parallel parking or back out of garage.

The manual leather seats in S2000 I believe are made by Recaro, they have good side bolsters and only adjustable features are forward and back and seat back recline, nothing else.

In general, it has fairly minimum features and in 2008-2009 they deleted power window, A/C and stereo in Club-Race model to reduce weight.
 
People that want "simple" cars are the same kind that want a sporty wagon with a manual gearbox. When such a car arrives on the scene, they applaud the effort and keep on driving their current car.

Manufacturers learned quickly that people creating all the noise on the internet, will hardly ever lay down the cash to back up their demands.
 
The Toyota Corolla is the closest thing to "simple" as can be found nowadays, and still meet emissions and safety laws. The reason, Toyota makes about 350K or more US/Canada Corolla's every year, plus another 200K+ in Japan, so they can make a significant investment in engineering them to be as simple and straightforward as possible.

The payoffs are considerable when multiplying by 1/2 Million compared to a typical "successful" annual car run of ~100,000. Almost any investment in reducing parts count, machine time, assembly time, etc. will pay off in only ONE year of production. With parts suppliers salivating to get a piece of this huge pie they'll make any revision requested to keep Toyota happy, so there's no push-back there, either.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
People that want "simple" cars are the same kind that want a sporty wagon with a manual gearbox. When such a car arrives on the scene, they applaud the effort and keep on driving their current car.

Manufacturers learned quickly that people creating all the noise on the internet, will hardly ever lay down the cash to back up their demands.

It's true, the used car buyer wants something simple, fun and practical. The car makers want to make more money and new car buyer needs to see some "improvements" and new features to help them make the purchase. So new cars aren't made for used car buyers.
Its too bad cars were considered more like OPE or heavy equipment. Sure some new features come along once in a while, but they are built to do a job and there's not a whole lot of money wasted on styling and gimmicks. Its value is still mostly derived from its capability and condition.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
People that want "simple" cars are the same kind that want a sporty wagon with a manual gearbox. When such a car arrives on the scene, they applaud the effort and keep on driving their current car.

Manufacturers learned quickly that people creating all the noise on the internet, will hardly ever lay down the cash to back up their demands.

It's true, the used car buyer wants something simple, fun and practical. The car makers want to make more money and new car buyer needs to see some "improvements" and new features to help them make the purchase. So new cars aren't made for used car buyers.
Its too bad cars were considered more like OPE or heavy equipment. Sure some new features come along once in a while, but they are built to do a job and there's not a whole lot of money wasted on styling and gimmicks. Its value is still mostly derived from its capability and condition.


Not only that, but those who want small sporty wagons with stickshift... tend to drive to high miles. They don't typically replace their vehicle every 3-5 years, but every 10 years. Or more. Or buy used. If buying new they want cheap. And are most likely to not be repeat buyers if there is any sort of issue with the car.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What I hate is variable valve timing. You have to run thin oil or the system won't work.

Both GM and Chrysler V8 engines using VVT run well with almost any grade of oil. Cylinder shutdown is equally unaffected.

Commonly misunderstood...

Agree. The VVT in Honda S2000 (VTEC is what they called) operates with thicker oil 5W40 than the usual 10W30, but the VTEC will not engage until the oil temperature is above certain degree like 130-150F. Someone tried to engage VTEC (rev pass 6000 RPM) within 500-1000 feet after a cold start, the fuel cut off at that RPM.

In So Cal I can rev to 6-7k after a mile or 2 of driving, but I usually wait until 4-5 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
People that want "simple" cars are the same kind that want a sporty wagon with a manual gearbox. When such a car arrives on the scene, they applaud the effort and keep on driving their current car.

Manufacturers learned quickly that people creating all the noise on the internet, will hardly ever lay down the cash to back up their demands.


Yeah, but for an individual the timing has to be right.

Personally, I'd jump for joy if Volkswagen offered a GTI spec SportWagen with a six speed manual. They're doing a Golf R SportWagen (probably won't come to the US), which is still exciting, but it's more than I care to spend.

I love the idea because when we have kids, it'll make my daily driver that much more useful. But I'm financially sensitive to the point that the car wouldn't be worth trading my perfectly good GTI in on one at this point. If it were available when I consider my GTI to be worn out, I'd be all over it.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle


I would rather have a Mirage than an Impala. If I'm driving an appliance, give me the one that gets 44MPG! Actually, I suspect the Mirage might be a fun little car with a standard shift.


Actually over on VWVortex.com there is a thread in the Car Lounge
about the Mirage with manual trans, and the owner seems to agree that it is a entertaining to drive little car.

It really is in a catagory by itself in the US market.
Mitsubishi was smart bringing this model to the US...
I'd like to see them bring the slightly nicer Colt here as well.
Still has the same characteristics as the Mirage yet is more driver oriented and was designed with Europe in mind.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
People that want "simple" cars are the same kind that want a sporty wagon with a manual gearbox. When such a car arrives on the scene, they applaud the effort and keep on driving their current car.

Manufacturers learned quickly that people creating all the noise on the internet, will hardly ever lay down the cash to back up their demands.


You nailed it. They simply don't sell.

This forum hardly represents an accurate cross section of car buyers. Most could care less about oils and other minutiae.
 
Tire pressure monitoring systems are actually a good thing. With today's tall rims/low profile tires, it's hard to tell if you have a low tire. For example, by tire light went off in the dash of my Challenger, and I looked at all 4 tires and they appeared ok. I put a gauge on them and the left front was 8 psi low. I couldn't tell by just looking at it. I had picked up a nail or screw or something. Plugged the tire and it's been fine since.
 
I can tolerate the tire pressure stuff, though I don't think I would have opted for it if it wasn't mandated. But the daytime running lights, the AFM cylinder shutdown stuff, and the backup sensors in the rear bumper had to become non working on my pickup. So they no longer function. Some of the stuff seems alright, and maybe even neat, on a dealer lot. In the real world outside of R&D, things don't always work out as proposed. Probably because of the limited vision of folks who come up with some of this stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: eljefino
http://www.mitsubishicars.com/mirage

1973 lbs curb weight.

7 air bags including a knee one, presumably installed because the car was busting knee caps without one.

74 hp, 1.2 liter, 3 cylinder engine. 44 MPG.

165/65/14 tires.

Yech! I'd take a 1990s sentra/ corrolla/ saturn/ escort etc with a normal shape and 100 hp.

The auto press rips this Mirage a new one, BTW. Mitsu expects to sell 7000 a year in the US, peanuts.

This car should be applied as a sentence imposed on probationary drunk drivers and road ragers. Airport rental agencies should stock a few to stiff travelers hoping to get free upgrades to Impalas so they never try that trick again.


I would rather have a Mirage than an Impala. If I'm driving an appliance, give me the one that gets 44MPG! Actually, I suspect the Mirage might be a fun little car with a standard shift.


You're correct that it's a fun little car with the 5 speed. The 5 speed doesn't get 44MPG, though. I tested one and ... thrashed ... it a bit. Lowest I could get was 48 or 49 average. Cruising up the highway, it was getting 55-60 or even higher!

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle


I would rather have a Mirage than an Impala. If I'm driving an appliance, give me the one that gets 44MPG! Actually, I suspect the Mirage might be a fun little car with a standard shift.


Actually over on VWVortex.com there is a thread in the Car Lounge
about the Mirage with manual trans, and the owner seems to agree that it is a entertaining to drive little car.

It really is in a catagory by itself in the US market.
Mitsubishi was smart bringing this model to the US...
I'd like to see them bring the slightly nicer Colt here as well.
Still has the same characteristics as the Mirage yet is more driver oriented and was designed with Europe in mind.


Sounds like a mini six when you wind it out! I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I needed a new vehicle! The Mirage is responsible for Mitsubishi's sharp increase in sales last year.
 
As a truck driver (semi-retired), my opinion is that every car should have daytime running lights and auto lights that come on at night and when the wipers come on. A lot of people forget to turn their lights on and I think this will prevent a lot of accidents.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Sounds like a mini six when you wind it out! I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I needed a new vehicle! The Mirage is responsible for Mitsubishi's sharp increase in sales last year.


I don't know what their actual sales numbers are, but I'm seeing these things all over the place. At least in town.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: eljefino
http://www.mitsubishicars.com/mirage

1973 lbs curb weight.

7 air bags including a knee one, presumably installed because the car was busting knee caps without one.

74 hp, 1.2 liter, 3 cylinder engine. 44 MPG.

165/65/14 tires.

Yech! I'd take a 1990s sentra/ corrolla/ saturn/ escort etc with a normal shape and 100 hp.

The auto press rips this Mirage a new one, BTW. Mitsu expects to sell 7000 a year in the US, peanuts.

This car should be applied as a sentence imposed on probationary drunk drivers and road ragers. Airport rental agencies should stock a few to stiff travelers hoping to get free upgrades to Impalas so they never try that trick again.


I would rather have a Mirage than an Impala. If I'm driving an appliance, give me the one that gets 44MPG! Actually, I suspect the Mirage might be a fun little car with a standard shift.


You're correct that it's a fun little car with the 5 speed. The 5 speed doesn't get 44MPG, though. I tested one and ... thrashed ... it a bit. Lowest I could get was 48 or 49 average. Cruising up the highway, it was getting 55-60 or even higher!

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle


I would rather have a Mirage than an Impala. If I'm driving an appliance, give me the one that gets 44MPG! Actually, I suspect the Mirage might be a fun little car with a standard shift.


Actually over on VWVortex.com there is a thread in the Car Lounge
about the Mirage with manual trans, and the owner seems to agree that it is a entertaining to drive little car.

It really is in a catagory by itself in the US market.
Mitsubishi was smart bringing this model to the US...
I'd like to see them bring the slightly nicer Colt here as well.
Still has the same characteristics as the Mirage yet is more driver oriented and was designed with Europe in mind.


Sounds like a mini six when you wind it out! I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I needed a new vehicle! The Mirage is responsible for Mitsubishi's sharp increase in sales last year.


I will definitely, definitely check this Mirage out at the 2015 NYIAS!
 
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