Is there any reason NOT to run a 0w-30 engine oil?

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: kyoo
(I'm the OP)

So basically, 10w30 still has the best oxidative and thermal stability? And also may prove helpful for turbocharged cars (like mine)?

If you're going with low OCIs (3-5k) does that still matter? Does it outweigh the benefit decreased cold engine startup?


What 10w30? What 5w30? What 0w-30? It is completely dependant upon the oil.

For example:

AMSOIL AZO 0w-30:
Flash: 224C
NOACK: 7.8%
HTHS: 3.1cP

Valvoline 10w30:
Flash: 216C
NOACK: HTHS: N/A

Valvoline Synpower 10w30:
Flash: 223C
NOACK: 9.6%
HTHS: N/A

So AMZOIL AZO 0w30 is better on both counts than Valvoline's synthetic 10w30.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: kyoo
(I'm the OP)

So basically, 10w30 still has the best oxidative and thermal stability? And also may prove helpful for turbocharged cars (like mine)?

If you're going with low OCIs (3-5k) does that still matter? Does it outweigh the benefit decreased cold engine startup?

No it doesn't out weight the benefit of decreased cold engine start-up performance and no manufacturer spec's a syn' 10w30 oil for that reason.
Since your car is turbocharged you may want to choose an oil that meets the Honda turbo HTO-06 spec'; Mobil 1 0w30 may not but Mobil 1 5w30 does.
Another choice in a light 30wt oil is Pennzoil Platnium 5w30 which meets the HTO-06 spec' and is actually lighter on start-up than Mobil 1 0w30 due to it's higher 177 viscosity index at all but extremely cold temp's.

 

[kyoo]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: kyoo
Any ideas on this? Recently went back through the BITOG motor oil university, and I can't think of a single reason, if the only difference between two oils was that one was 0w30 and the other was 10w30, why you would go with that 10w30 oil? Thoughts?

First welcome to BITOG!

You're correct there is no reason not to use a 0w30 if your engine is spec'd for a 30wt oil. The 10w30 grade is largely redundant particularly in a synthetic oil and has been replaced by the 5w30 grade.
The problem with the 0w30 grade is that there is not much choice in an OTC oil. What is readily available and would be the most suitable oil for your application would be Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W-30.





Thanks, was planning on running AMSOIL Signature Series 0w30 - was just wondering if there were any 'con's with a 0w30 as opposed to a 10w30 - especially for a turbocharged car - seems there could be some minor drawbacks, but may be worth it for the extra break in protection

 

[CATERHAM]

Yes as OVERKILL pointed out the PAO based Amsoil 0w30 is also a very good choice in a more expensive oil choice.

 

[05foresterXT]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: 05foresterXT
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: sm00thpapa
0W-30, 5w30 and 10w30 are all a straight 30 weight above 32 degrees. Go with what makes you feel good inside.

That statement is not correct. They are all a 30 weight at operating temperature.


This is also not entirely correct. They all fall within 10 - 12 cst at 100 degrees celcius. There can be much variation at 150 degrees, which also falls within the realm of "operating temperature." Many 0w30 and 5w30 oils have HTHS of
I have used Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30, and Mobil 1 5w30 in my turbo Subaru, and I believe these oils caused a problem. I would never use either oil again in my car. German Castrol 0w30, on the other hand, is quite stout, and I would have no problem running this in my Subaru. I would have no problem running Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 in my wife's Honda, or even 0w20 in our short trip civic in the winter.

After getting my Subaru motor rebuilt, I have been running Brad Penn 10w30 during the winter months, and will run Brad Penn 10w40 through spring and summer until I switch to a full synthetic.


Nit Picky eh? So explain to me how these oils are not all a 30 weight oil at "operating temperature." Operating temperature = 100C per the test requirements. I dont know many engines that have an operating temperature of 150C or 302F. This conversation was not about HTHS but rather the oil weight, which, anyone knowledgeable knows that the HTHS is one of the factors that actually determines the actual thickness. Most people don't even care what the HTHS of their oils are. I also don't understand how you think Mobil 1 5w30 damaged your engine when it meets the strict HTO-06 spec from honda which stands for High Temperature Operation, which if you haven't you should look up that spec and the testing.


Sorry to pick your nits. I didn't mean to offend you, I just find that the 100C test standard doesn't really tell the whole story, especially in high stress situations. Most people don't realize how thin the oil really gets in these situations. I guess we just differed on the definition of "operating temperature."

 

[05foresterXT]

Originally Posted By: Rolla07

I have never heard of any quality oil causing engine problems. What happened with the engine?


I'm not entirely sure of how it happened, but after a sustained high speed run with Mobil 1 5w30, I ended up 3 quarts low on oil. After running low, the engine continued to consume oil for the next 2 years or 40,000 miles. I've since been advised not to use this oil, as many turbocharged Subarus have had failures running it. I always thought it was a perfectly fine oil since my owner's manual recommended 5w30. I still run it in the Honda, but never in the Subaru. I believe the fault is in Subaru's oil recommendation, not the oil itself.

 

[05foresterXT]

Kyoo, I'm assuming you are asking about the oil for your 2006 EVO? If your car is modified, tuned, or if you do any racing, or very high stress driving, it does change the oil requirement. I like to avoid general statements about any oils. There are some people who are adamant about thinner oils being better, or oils with higher viscosity indexes being superior. The truth is every car has different needs, and what is a good oil for one car may not be for another. It might be helpful to find out what experiences people have with different motor oils on a forum specific to your vehicle. I had for a very long time been a huge fan of Mobil 1 oils. I still think they make very good oils, but I had a specific problem to my vehicle and my usage with a specific motor oil. Every tuner I have ever spoken to has told me flat out not to run Mobil 1 5w30, and they recommend 10w40 for my application, even though my OM specs 5w30. I will not preach "thinner is better" or "thicker is better" because neither statement is true for all applications. I do feel, however, that you need to pay close attention to HTHS values when you are lubricating a turbocharged engine. If you go too thin in this regard, you are playing with the possibility of serious engine damage when operating the vehicle in any high-heat or high-stress situation.

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: kyoo
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: kyoo
Any ideas on this? Recently went back through the BITOG motor oil university, and I can't think of a single reason, if the only difference between two oils was that one was 0w30 and the other was 10w30, why you would go with that 10w30 oil? Thoughts?

First welcome to BITOG!

You're correct there is no reason not to use a 0w30 if your engine is spec'd for a 30wt oil. The 10w30 grade is largely redundant particularly in a synthetic oil and has been replaced by the 5w30 grade.
The problem with the 0w30 grade is that there is not much choice in an OTC oil. What is readily available and would be the most suitable oil for your application would be Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W-30.





Thanks, was planning on running AMSOIL Signature Series 0w30 - was just wondering if there were any 'con's with a 0w30 as opposed to a 10w30 - especially for a turbocharged car - seems there could be some minor drawbacks, but may be worth it for the extra break in protection

For an Evo, you want to run a more robust oil. See the recommendations from 05foresterXT. See the many recommendations here for Evo's, STi's and WRX's. For Amsoil, their 5w30 Series 3000 HDD would be an excellent choice IMO. Run anything with an HTHS of 3.5 or higher.

I've run SSO twice and it is not the ideal oil for your application IMO. Check out this uoa on HDD:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2583966

Even Mobil 1 advised me to use their 0W-40 for my application.

-Dennis

 

[Zako2]

0W30 is still thinner than 10W30 even in non-freezing temperatures, except for extreme summer heat. This could lead to leaks through gaskets in older cars. My bros' 05 Lancer always used 10W30. I put G-Oil 5W30 synthetic in it for a couple of OCIs. This oil is probably one of the thinnest 5W30s at cold start temperatures with 55cst kinematic viscosity at 40C (typical 30 grade is >60, even 0W30). Anyways, the car started leaking, a lot. It's leaking though transmission/engine seal area, something I can't fix easily or cheaply I just put Valvoline Nextgen conventional 5W30 into it, we'll see what happens.

 

[donnyj08]

for the evo,you will want and oil that can hold up to the turbo abuse. i had a GST modified a few years back and i ran Mobil 1 10w30 in it, but if i still owned that car i would run 0w40 Mobil 1 or one of the HTO-06 oils like Mobil 1 5w30. The AMSOIL Signature Series 0w30 is and excellent choice, but if your going to be changing it every 3-4k miles i would save your self some money and just buy Mobil 1 5w30 or 0w40 at walmart. Both of those oils should hold up excellent in your Mivec 4g63.

 

[kyoo]

thanks for the advice everyone. i guess i'll have to play around a bit. I've been shuffling between 10w30 zrod and 0w30 sso, for zinc for the turbo etc vs cold start flow..

after reading this, i was more or less sold on z-rod http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php...41d4896#p378825 but idk

 

[05foresterXT]

I think the Z-rod sounds like good stuff. This is a little old, but a good read for anyone with a turbocharged motor:

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merch...Motor%20Oil.pdf

 

[kyoo]

Originally Posted By: 05foresterXT
I think the Z-rod sounds like good stuff. This is a little old, but a good read for anyone with a turbocharged motor:

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merch...Motor%20Oil.pdf


thanks - btw i love the 2005 subaru forester 2.5xt!

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: Zako2
0W30 is still thinner than 10W30 even in non-freezing temperatures, except for extreme summer heat. This could lead to leaks through gaskets in older cars. My bros' 05 Lancer always used 10W30. I put G-Oil 5W30 synthetic in it for a couple of OCIs. This oil is probably one of the thinnest 5W30s at cold start temperatures with 55cst kinematic viscosity at 40C (typical 30 grade is >60, even 0W30). Anyways, the car started leaking, a lot. It's leaking though transmission/engine seal area, something I can't fix easily or cheaply I just put Valvoline Nextgen conventional 5W30 into it, we'll see what happens.


This isn't always the case. Some 0w30s are thicker than their 5w30 counterparts with the difference being extreme cold flow ability.

For example: Mobil 1 5w30 and Mobil 1 0w30, 0w30 is actually thicker. Now I know this is 5w30 and not a 10w30 but the 10w30 is VERY close to the same viscosities at the same tested tempratures, 40C and 100C, with the 10w30 being more thin than the 0w30 and 100c.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-30_Advanced_Fuel_Economy.aspx

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5w30.aspx

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_10W-30.aspx

 

[kyoo]

Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: Zako2
0W30 is still thinner than 10W30 even in non-freezing temperatures, except for extreme summer heat. This could lead to leaks through gaskets in older cars. My bros' 05 Lancer always used 10W30. I put G-Oil 5W30 synthetic in it for a couple of OCIs. This oil is probably one of the thinnest 5W30s at cold start temperatures with 55cst kinematic viscosity at 40C (typical 30 grade is >60, even 0W30). Anyways, the car started leaking, a lot. It's leaking though transmission/engine seal area, something I can't fix easily or cheaply I just put Valvoline Nextgen conventional 5W30 into it, we'll see what happens.


This isn't always the case. Some 0w30s are thicker than their 5w30 counterparts with the difference being extreme cold flow ability.

For example: Mobil 1 5w30 and Mobil 1 0w30, 0w30 is actually thicker. Now I know this is 5w30 and not a 10w30 but the 10w30 is VERY close to the same viscosities at the same tested tempratures, 40C and 100C, with the 10w30 being more thin than the 0w30 and 100c.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-30_Advanced_Fuel_Economy.aspx

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5w30.aspx

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_10W-30.aspx


In any case I guess I'm not sure how cold "thinness" could lead to leaks - since it's still thicker than operating viscosity right?