is Regular oil safe for '03 BMW?

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
In five pages I don't see a single fact, not even a valid theory, why the OP can't use good conventional 10w40 in his car. It's a legitimate question and there should be a little bit more focused thought put into it.

A high-miles oil like MaxLife would be excellent, UOA w/TBN to verify the interval.

Who amongst you will volenteer?


Have to wonder why you don't do this yourself with your BMW if you feel that strongly about it.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Are you offering me a car? Obviously when I asked for a volenteer it was someone with an appropriate test vehicle, hence the "who". Since you've already accrued such a vast data and knowledge base on premium BMW oil service, why not entertain us low-lifes who depend on jug oil from WalMart for our lubes, and do the test, like a man. I'll pay for the UOA, you pick the oil. 10w-40, 15w40 HD or 10w-40 Hi-Miles.

Afraid your BMW will tank after 5000 miles on HD oil?

 

[sprintman]

AJ your now in the same bracket as the OP. I see you conveniently ignore the part about numerous pictures of sludged engines on multiple BMW forums. Selective memory maye?

 

[Trajan]

Ummm, it's for you to provide the proof of your assertation. The fact that you are unwilling to show that your point is valid speaks volumes about how much you beleive it. To say nothing of just what kind of man you are.

Afraid you're wrong??? I'd say so. You don't even tell the guy who wants to know what kind of oil to use for his car in Florida
to use 10w40 conventional.

This rich, elite, snob, who bought his 04 back in 06, from a Ford dealer no less, awaits the result of your running dino in your BMW.

 

[Trajan]

Scratch the Florida part. You did mention dino.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Oh, that's how it works? Anyone who wants to discuss a specific vehicle/oil application needs to procure his own test bed?

Correct me if I'm wrong (by accessing the actual threads) the sludged BMWs were using either Dealer oil, and never changed it, or Quick Lube oil out to and past OLMs. So, synthetic oil sludges and conventional oil sludges, hmm. I take it as well, NONE of those sludge posters actually poured the oil into their cars themselves? Right, BMW "Experts"? I'll bet Trajen doesn't even do his own services, with all his esteem issues.

All you can say from that is, "something happened and here it is".


On paper, how do 5w-40 compare to conventional 10w-40 and 15w40?

You can barely squeeze a sheet of paper between them, in most indicators, they are THE SAME. lol, it's not like they're using sulphur as an additive in conventional oil.

Visc: same

HT/HS: Dino Rotella 4.1cP, 10w-40 >3.5cP / Syntec Euro 5w-40 3.5cP / BMW 3.5cP

TBN: Dino Rotella 10.6 Shell 10w-40 9.5 / Syntec 11.1 / BMW 10.6

FlashPoint: Esso 15w40 430f Chevron Supreme 10w-40 430f/ Syntec 445f / BMW 445f



I found this in 5 minutes just browsing. Doesn't anyone do actual research anymore?

This is the BMW oil VOA you refer to like you know it by heart...

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/bmw-high-performance-5w30.35917/


Here's a direct comparo VOA of 15w-50 synthetic and 10w-40 conventional

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ll-10-40-conventional-15-50-synthetic.104341/


Here's Castrol's European GTX "mineral" 10w-40, meeting Euro A3,VW 505,MB229.1

http://datasheets.bp.com/bpglis/lubtds.n...7D?OpenDocument

Rock on!

 

[Vizzy]

If you just apply for common sense and logic I too see NO reason WHY you couldn't use regular conventional oil with the correct weight IF you change every 4 or 5k miles.

If you live in a moderate climate don't do lots of very high speed driving (autobahn speeds) or stop and go driving there appears to be no logical reason why you can't use a decent quality conventional.

AJ is correct the main reason WHY many German companies spec synthetic oils is exactly because of long OCIs not to mention that with high autobahn speeds and lots of stop and go congestion in the cities it makes sense FOR Germany.

Now when we are talking about gasoline octane and detergency, it is a bit of a different story. The car has been mapped at the factory for use of high octane product and they spend mega dollars to optimize the car for it. It IS safe to use regular gasoline, BUT you WILL lose some performance and economy as well so you will most likely save nothing if you use regular. Nothing at all in the final outcome.

Detergency Quality....Probably THE most important part of gasoline is the quality of detergency. It is worth it to use a top tier gasoline. It may not even cost more than a couple of cents per gallon than the off brand stuff with the very minimal level of questionable detergent additives. TOP TIER will most likely have the most effective detergent in it PEA. It is proven to be most effective on carbon build up on fuel injectors AND intake valves, ect.....

Whether you use reg or premium always ALWAYS make sure you use a high detergency gasoline with PEA or similar product in it.

 

[Trajan]

Let's see. GTX 10w-40: ACEA A3/B3
API SL/CF
MB 229.1
VW 505 00

Doesn't meet LL01. FAIL
BMW says use API rated SM or higher. FAIL
No HT/HS rating. BMW specs 3.5. FAIL
Petitioner does not run it in own BMW. FAIL

I'll stick with Mobil 1 0w-40. Much better oil.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-40.aspx

Mercedes MB 229.5
BMW Longlife 01 (PASS)

Porsche Approval List 2002
VW 502.00/505.00/503.01

GM-LL-A-025 (gasoline)
GM-LL-B-025 (diesel)

ACEA A3, B3/B4
API SM/CF (PASS)

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.asp (PASS)

 

[sprintman]

As the OP appears short of a buck why not forget specs totally and put 0W20 in it, like many here do? Could save some fuel money.

 

[Trajan]

That might work. But would it hold up to the spirited driving he does sometimes? (I think we scared him off though

)

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Let's see. GTX 10w-40: ACEA A3/B3
API SL/CF
MB 229.1
VW 505 00

Doesn't meet LL01. FAIL
BMW says use API rated SM or higher. FAIL
No HT/HS rating. BMW specs 3.5. FAIL
Petitioner does not run it in own BMW. FAIL


Now that you've shown that you don't have the goods, you don't even have the basic knowledge nor technique to argue your point. That circle-talk might work on your BMW Forums, not here.You really need to hang it up for a while until you learn a thing or two, like what all the numbers and letters (specs) mean...

Really, I'm embarassed for you.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: Vizzy
If you just apply for common sense and logic I too see NO reason WHY you couldn't use regular conventional oil with the correct weight IF you change every 4 or 5k miles.

If you live in a moderate climate don't do lots of very high speed driving (autobahn speeds) or stop and go driving there appears to be no logical reason why you can't use a decent quality conventional.

AJ is correct the main reason WHY many German companies spec synthetic oils is exactly because of long OCIs not to mention that with high autobahn speeds and lots of stop and go congestion in the cities it makes sense FOR Germany.




Consider too, the tax structure on motor oils in Europe. It's designed to favour longer drain intervals and discourage "dumping it" every 3k like we do. There are no 5q/$10 WalMart deals over there. I suspect a jug of conventional costs at least $35.

This is and always will be the driving factor in the advent of extended drains with speced synthetic oil in Europe. One other factor being the inclusive maintenance the mfgs offer.

Why the heck would they "spec" anything other than the extended drain oil they have a database on? Do you think they really would consider the "WalMart Factor"...lol. They also want to keep the customer as far away as possible, to keep their little complaints to themselves.

I can only imagine what the BMW Service Advisors go through already....

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: sprintman
As the OP appears short of a buck why not forget specs totally and put 0W20 in it, like many here do? Could save some fuel money.


Thanks for reminding me of the ultimate out-of-spec testor, Dr. Hass.

There is someone who is willing to put his money where his mouth is.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/1018544/

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Let's see. GTX 10w-40: ACEA A3/B3
API SL/CF
MB 229.1
VW 505 00

Doesn't meet LL01. FAIL FAIL, doesn't meet specs
BMW says use API rated SM or higher. FAIL
No HT/HS rating. BMW specs 3.5. FAIL And the HT/HS rating of the Castrol, or is it Rotella is.

Petitioner does not run it in own BMW. FAIL


Now that you've shown that you don't have the goods, you don't even have the basic knowledge nor technique to argue your point. That circle-talk might work on your BMW Forums, not here.You really need to hang it up for a while until you learn a thing or two, like what all the numbers and letters (specs) mean...

Really, I'm embarassed for you.






Yeah, right.

1: The whole point of the thread was using conv oil in an engine spec'd for synth. The majority answer is, more or less, a bad idea. Put forth by those who actually own, operate, and maintain them. Unlike some.

2: The claim of used oil analysis of said engines using conv oil is made. And yet nothing besides said claim is produced. There are used oil analysis of BMWs on this site using syn oil though.

3: The claim is made that a since syn oil is 2x the price of conv, that using the conv, provided it is changed 2x as often, is better. Which misses the point of the thread.(Owner is cheap, thereby refuting said claim. Not even counting that it's two oil filters instead of one if one does the 2x.)

4: And of course, to prove the claim for him, the petitioner seeks volunteers to run conv oil in their own cars. Petitioner however has made no offer to indemnify said test dummy/s to cover any damage that would occur. Which would lead any reasonable person to come to the conclusion that the petitioner has no faith in his claim. Kind of like the bitron thread.

5: Petitioner claims that Castrol GTX 10w-40 will work in the engine. And when it is shown to fail, it is then called Rotella.
Hmmmm.

Thousands of BMW owners, a company that's been making engines since at least WW1, vs the opinion of one who does not even own one. Now that, last part, in and of itself, isn't that big a deal.

But the lack of courage of convictions, combined with the huge outpouring of volunteers to prove something the petitioner will not do, or even cover, says it all.

I have yet to see any reason to switch to a conv oil once the warranty expires. I have not seen any hard data that sways me. I have yet to see any explaination as to why conv oil is not on the approved list of any of the links. Or any conv oil that meets or exceeds the specs.

So as my last word. I'll stick with what I'm using. The OP is at liberty to use what he wants.

 

[sprintman]

AJ spend some time on the BMW forums looking at the disastrous pictures of the briiliant engines BMW built, sludged beyond belief, instead of postulating your wacky theories here. It will be time well spent but that's just my opinion and what do I know as a BMW owner? One day I may post my 2c worth of BMW maimtenance, and more importantly for an E46, preventative maintenance. i'm going back to the dyno tomorrow at 8:00am after last Wednesday evenings BMW Car club free night at the local dyno, discovered a leaning condition when getting hot, and dyno guy said "fix it". 99% of owners would ignore it, I can't. Masybe I'm the odd one out on this post and forum?

 

[MrBiglund]

I think if he went with a good synthetic like PP, which can be had for cheap, although it might now meet all of BMW's specs, he should be ok. That way he can save money and still use synthetic. I think he will be ok for the longer oci as well.

 

[Tobin]

Im very sorry guys for your loss, but I dont care for your comments earlier about selling my car, I do care about it otherwise I would have gave it up when I was charged the $1000 for brakes + rotor like you mentioned, and another $1,500 when the steering pump failed. ALL of which I'm still paying on my credit card. When I got the car from the previous owner (84,000K mi) he took very good care of it (first owner) using only synthetic oil. So I know very well about the costs of this car, and even its so called reliability, both of which was good enough for me to sell it off but as I said earlier I may not be the same breed of BMW owner but I do love the car inside and out.

So rather than attack me and call me names which u cleverly got away with without that word being censored (sprint man) lol. I wanted to see a healthy discussion about the question I asked. But even among people in this forum, some people are saying using certain dinos is fine, and they want more facts to proven otherwise. So I know I havent done anything wrong to my car by just asking that question.

 

[D189379]

Let me try to sum up this thread for you.

1. You can run dino for 3-5k miles with no ill effects.
2. You should run synthetic if you plan on doing extended drains/ following the olm. BMW recommends synthetic for this reason alone, knowing the average owner isn't a boy racer wannabe that can't stop himself from flooring the car everywhere they go.
3. It's a good idea to use synthetic if you race the car (you actually are a boy racer) or will be starting it in very cold weather.
4. You probably won't save any money using dino and changing every 3-5k as opposed to running synthetic for extended drains (10k+)

 

[Tobin]

I'm sorry for not responding.. I in the middle of trying to clean and reading your threads. I've gotten the same impression as AJ, using dino with regular intervals wont be harmful under regular driving conditions if changed every 5K INTERVALS.

Now some argue that its about the same in price but AJ is not neccessarily arguing that, although according to my calculations and by real estimates from oil change places, such as MIDAS, it is still cheaper.

I MAINLY wanted to know in facts and in theory as why regular oil would harm an engine and I gave a reason as to why I was asking this (because I'm broke at the moment lol). I didnt do anything yet. At first, I didnt hear much from people who thought dino would be good. I appreciate AJ offering the other side of the picture with his advice and being simply bold enough to challenge conventional thought. I wish you people wouldnt attack each other just over discussing motor oil?

Believe it or not, I'm not listening to what I want to hear. I really do want to see some research and I've been doing that for the past 2 weeks. So to me all advice is welcome.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Tobin
I wish you people wouldnt attack each other just over discussing motor oil?

It's just an internet forum. What did you expect?

The fact of the matter is that most of us are here because we're car nuts and we want the best for our cars. We get goosebumps when someone talks about taking their car to Jiffy Lube or Midas for an oil change.

Happy Memorial Day everyone!