quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
I think that MoDTC is fairly effective, particularly in the lighter 5w-20/5w-30, API licensed oils that use reduced amounts of ZDDP. However, you can also use boron and various types of esters - that don't show up in an oil analysis - to achieve the same end result.
Redline uses 7-8 times as much moly as is used in Mobil 1, but I'd have to say that for shorter change intervals on the order of 5000-7500 miles, the M1 results have been more consistent. I have seen some excellent results with Redline, particularly with their 5w-40 and 10w-30. I have also seen some very average results with what I'd regard as rapid TBN depletion and fairly high wear rates.
I certainly don't think moly is some sort of panacea that changes an average oil into an excellent one....
I'd be very surprised if Amsoil starts using moly across the board. Their main concern is oxidative stability and TBN retention over long drain intervals and I don't think using large amounts of moly is necessarily desirable for this.
TooSlick
Ted, your last statement is what I'd agree with, that too much of a good thing is as bad as too little. Moly in itself actually has antioxidant abilities and if properly blended, can assist slowing down tbn usage. Now in redlines case, My opinion is they are wasting the moly as all the UOA's show the excessive amounts of moly left after use. It appears the the FTIR has some problem with this oil, showing higher levels of oxidation and I figure it's due to the overload of moly, thus scewing the oxidation readings.
Like any additive, if too much it can cause an imbalance as the additives must be able to share the surface and if one is more dominant than the other, then you have an imbalance of too much on the one and the other additives can't do their job, in the case of redline, I personally see where the overload may be affecting the detergent additives, thus making it harder to keep the acid levels reduced, thus maybe giving higher levels of oxidation readings. You also must keep in mind that Redlines oils are designed for racing in general and not for long term driving, thus, they don't need to keep the oil as resistive to acid build up causing the oxidation increases.
So, is moly a bad thing, certainly not, if properly used in a blend. I agree, it is an alternative to the lower levels of zddp but as one has pointed out, that the zddp works at a lower temp for barrier additive levels, but as the temp increases, the moly will start to take over, thus is actually can reduce the wear levels in extreme low pressure, extremem pressure take offs, were zddp will not hold up to those extremes. Obvioulsy this isn't the normal thing an engine will see, but in racing applications, jackrabbit starts at lights, and under extreme loaded conditions in heavy equipment, trucks, bull dozers, and such, moly is a very effective additive in reducing wear and keeping the oxiation levels at a lower level and reducing tbn depletion.
M1 SS and Schaeffers both show much lower levels of moly than redline and both of these are well blended with the right amount of moly and I know in schaeffers case, the tbn drop is extremely slower than most oils that start out at 12tbn, proven many times by analysis. That is where you can see that moly is not a problem for tbn retention but an asset.
