Is Lubegard Red necessary....?

[Trav]

Quote:
How "back in the day" no one ever replaced transmission fluid because of the magic whale elixir?

Transmission fluid changes were few and far between back in the day and most units outlived the car.

When did you first start seeing flushing machines? The late 80's was the first i heard of them.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: cchase
No one else was off-put by their sperm whale oil claims? How "back in the day" no one ever replaced transmission fluid because of the magic whale elixir?


It seems that whale elixir could not handle to higher transmission temps. I am too lazy to confirm this myself at the moment maybe I will get back to it.

"In the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, ATF contained whale oil as a friction modifier. But since whale oil would break down at higher temperatures, cars produced in the 1970s and later would not be able to use whale oil because of the higher engine coolant temperatures employed to reduce emissions and save fuel. A moratorium on whale oil at that time prevented the continued production of older ATF such as the original DEXRON formulation (Type B), and the Type A which preceded it. General Motors began marketing Dexron II Type C and later Dexron II Type D to replace the fluids which were made from whale oil.[6]"

 

[Donald]

If you want your ATF to perform better, buy better ATF, like Amsoil or Redline. Leave the additives on the shelf.

Has anyone filled their transmission with top shelf full synthetic ATF, ran the vehicle, then added Lubeguard and really felt it ran better than with just plain full synthetic ATF?

I think buying cheap ATF and expecting Lubegard to make it great ATF is a folly.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Has anyone filled their transmission with top shelf full synthetic ATF, ran the vehicle, then added Lubeguard and really felt it ran better than with just plain full synthetic ATF?


Yes and scan tool temp and shift time data prove it. Have you even tried this product?

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: Donald


Has anyone filled their transmission with top shelf full synthetic ATF, ran the vehicle, then added Lubeguard and really felt it ran better than with just plain full synthetic ATF?



Yes, actually, I have and documented it here on BITOG. A definite incresae in the Saturn's shift firmness after I put it in.

 

[Bgallagher]

Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Originally Posted By: Donald


Has anyone filled their transmission with top shelf full synthetic ATF, ran the vehicle, then added Lubeguard and really felt it ran better than with just plain full synthetic ATF?


Yes, actually, I have and documented it here on BITOG. A definite incresae in the Saturn's shift firmness after I put it in.


Same here, changed the ATF in my dad's fusion with Amsoil ATF. Shifted well but after I added the lubeguard the shifting smoothed out and is more responsive. Great stuff

 

[eagle23]

Originally Posted By: Bgallagher
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Originally Posted By: Donald


Has anyone filled their transmission with top shelf full synthetic ATF, ran the vehicle, then added Lubeguard and really felt it ran better than with just plain full synthetic ATF?


Yes, actually, I have and documented it here on BITOG. A definite incresae in the Saturn's shift firmness after I put it in.


Same here, changed the ATF in my dad's fusion with Amsoil ATF. Shifted well but after I added the lubeguard the shifting smoothed out and is more responsive. Great stuff


+1. I have a 1991 Ranger (84k original miles now) with the A4LD and Mobil 1 in it. Ran it like that for 15,000 miles, then added LG Red having heard here it can help. Within 50-75 miles, the shifts were markedly smoother. Later learned from Trav a 2nd bottle can be added without issue (verified by Lubegard) and within 10 miles shifting got smoother still, and a reverse engagement "bang" virtually went away.

Donald, what do you have against this product? Why is it that several members' direct positive experiences (Trav has many years and many customer cars) with it makes no difference in your opinion? You have exactly ZERO experience with it but constantly ctiticize LG as worthless. Can you explain that or is the answer self-evident? Cheez!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Some of us blindly adhere to the "all additives are bad or unneeded" way of thinking.

Lubegard has made a noticeable difference in every vehicle I've used it in, and when manufacturers mention a product by name you can bet it's good for something.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
lubegard will bring your fluid up a couple of notches..use it!!



What tribological notches are you referring to?

It appears the base oil carrier is GroupIII and some GroupIV PAO, but so are most ATF's these days.

I think the synthesized esters and anti-oxidants might help a non DexronVI(R) type oil in an old transmission clean up the varnish on valving.

The question I have alsways pondered is, if this product does what it advertises, how come we have have never seen any before and after pictures of it's alleged effectiness?

 

[eagle23]

The question I have alsways pondered is, if this product does what it advertises, how come we have have never seen any before and after pictures of it's alleged effectiness?

[/quote]

Because you can't take a picture of a better shift.

When manufacturers recommend it in TSB (Subaru is one IIRC), there is no picture, just better performance.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
The question I have alsways pondered is, if this product does what it advertises, how come we have have never seen any before and after pictures of it's alleged effectiness?

What kind of pictures? No one in their right mind is going to pull a valve body or pull the transmission out to disassemble the clutch drum, take a pic, put it back together then pull it all apart 6 mo later for another pic.
The product is not sold primarily as a flush or cleaner.
IMO that's a little unrealistic. Scantool temp and shift time data before and after is really the only data you can get in this case.

I admit that a vehicle that uses dex VI from day 1 and has had regular service will probably have a less dramatic effect.
On the other hand even if the product reduced the temp by only 5f its still of some value given its low price and service life IMO.

 

[Capa]

How many manufacturers recommend it? Manufacturers also recommend drain intervals that most don't follow here

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
How "back in the day" no one ever replaced transmission fluid because of the magic whale elixir?

Transmission fluid changes were few and far between back in the day and most units outlived the car.

When did you first start seeing flushing machines? The late 80's was the first i heard of them.


Sorry, not seeing a connection. Transmissions had fewer gears, shifted less, were driven far fewer miles under (in many cases) easier circumstances.

I'm not trying to say that whatever it may be, Lubegard is ineffective in some cases. But to claim that it is a magic elixir that was once in transmission fluid that allowed it to last forever and no longer exists is preposterous. If it were, they'd put it in transmission fluid in the first place. Unless we're going to go by the tin foil "they don't want your transmission to last" poppycock.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
I think the synthesized esters and anti-oxidants might help a non DexronVI(R) type oil in an old transmission clean up the varnish on valving.



Quote:
What kind of pictures? No one in their right mind is going to pull a valve body or pull the transmission out to disassemble the clutch drum, take a pic, put it back together then pull it all apart 6 mo later for another pic.

The product is not sold primarily as a flush or cleaner.
IMO that's a little unrealistic. Scantool temp and shift time data before and after is really the only data you can get in this case.



•Keeps valves and governors free and frees stuck valves in valve bodies

http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-112/LUBEGARD+Automatic+Transmission+Fluid+Protectant


It is not unrealistic and I never said it was a flush. A varnished valve body before and after would show some cleaning ability, and a measure of the clutch material wear or lack thereof would be impressive, unless it is not supposed to do either.

 

[MolaKule]

Let's look at some more claims from:

http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-112/LUBEGARD+Automatic+Transmission+Fluid+Protectant

•Eliminates transmission fluid foaming and oxidation

Transmission fluid already has defoamant. You cannot "eliminate" oxidation, you can only retard it.

•Reduces wear throughout the transmission

Okay, the extra phos it has might help some but ATF already has between 300 and 500 ppm of phos.

•Eliminates clutch chatter and torque converter shudder

This tells me it has some extra FM's, but too much FM will cause excessive slipping and clutchwear.

•Optimizes total transmission performance

Internal pressures and valve timing optimize performance.


•Maintains proper ATF viscosity index in the torque Converter

A little bit of synthesized esters would help this, so I'll bite.

•Provides for smoother shifting

Well, but why?

•Eliminates objectionable noises during shifts


Depends on transmission mileage and wear.


•Keeps valves and governors free and frees stuck valves in valve bodies

See comments in previous post. Keeping valves clear and unstuck imples either removing valve varnish.valve

•Assists in eliminating warranty comebacks

So the manufacturer finds out I put some additive in a transmission under warranty and they welcome me back with open arms after a failure?


•Raises the thermal and oxidative stability of the fluid

IN older fluids before DexronVI types, it could.

•Only protectant that increases the fluid’s ability to transfer heat

A fluid's ability to transfer heat is dependent upon a thermodynamic principle called, "specific heat."


•Does not contain any harmful components such as zinc (ZDDP) ash, etc. like other competing products

A small amount of zinc (5ppm) is added as a seconday anti-oxidant in most fluids.


•Protects new seals and permanently restores older seals to a "like-new" condition, without adverse side effects.

Yep the esters in LGR could do that.

 

[MolaKule]

•Softens and modifies harsh shifts making them quicker in duration

Shift duration is determined by time taken to go from one gear to another.


Soft and hard shifts are determined by the level of friction modifiers and types, (programmed) valve timing, and internal pressures or the force applied to actuators, and amount and condition of friction left on clutch surface.

And what makes it better or wrose than this product?

http://www.lifeautomotive.com/Products/ATFP4001.asp

 

[Trav]

Quote:
And what makes it better or wrose than this product?


Who said its better or worse? LG is the best known of these products i don't know how the product is formulated maybe its better, maybe not i would ask them.

Now let me ask you. Have you even tried this product?
If not why don't you along with your scan tool and post your findings then you can explain why it works or not.
Instead you are asking questions akin to asking the end user what internal components make their microwave work then telling them why i cant work as they sit down to a hot meal.

No offence intended its just the way i see it.

 

[cchase]

My personal experience with LG was that it lightened my wallet by about $12. I suppose I can say, at the least, it does not seem to have had any negative effects.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Now let me ask you. Have you even tried this product?


I sure have Trav.

I have even analyzed the additive separately and the ATF it was in.

Performance wise, I noticed no difference in shifting or temperature differences in both GM and Nissan vehicles.

I hope all of you realize that I am playing the DEVIL'S advocate and am trying to get you to think critically about ANY additive and the claims they may make.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:


•Does not contain any harmful components such as zinc (ZDDP) ash, etc. like other competing products



In a transmission fluid you don't have combustion deposits so this bullet is non sequitur.

What you do want is the fluid to permeate the friction material because the fluid cools the friction surfaces and cushions the engagement, and provides the proper friction coefficient.

What you don't want are metals imbedding themselves in the clutch's surface material.