Is Fiat good for Chrysler?

[01rangerxl]

If I had to put money on it, I'd say Fiat is going to run Chrysler into the ground, but who really knows at this point?

I think Fiat could save Chrysler with proper management and a lineup that makes some kind of sense. Chrysler still has some strong products like the Ram that should be left alone. Some of the lineup, in particularly the bizarre things Chrysler currently considers to be small cars, should be cut though. Maybe Fiat could provide some good platforms as replacements, but leave it up to Chrysler to do the body work, interiors, and maybe even powertrains. I don't think selling Fiats or direct clones of Fiats next to Rams and Jeeps would work, but maybe well designed Chryslers on Fiat platforms could save the brand.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: hinterlander
Oh really, have you driven a Fiat lately?

Well, about 4 years ago. My company had a bunch of brand new Puntos. They were utter junk with super weak engines and terrible plastics all around. Chevy Aveo felt like a Mercedes in comparison.


Quote:

How about Lancia or Alfa Romeo?

Yes, well, these are the fancy varieties. They're nice cars, but have their quirks (as do BMWs or Audis), but I doubt they'll sell in big numbers here, so they'll most likely do little to affect Chrysler's image.

 

[rszappa1]

Fiat is already loosing a lot of money....

 

[bretfraz]

Fiat will be a much better steward of Chrysler than Daimler ever was. As has been said, Daimler only really wanted Chrysler for its money - it had billions in the bank and a world class design team.

Daimler bought Chrysler for $36 Billion in 1998. About 10 years later, 80% of the company was sold for $7.4 Billion. Everyone lost in that deal, it was bad business all around. Hopefully Fiat manages the relationship better.

 

[Dually]

Would Ford/GM step in to Jeep and improve upon what is there or will the Jeep brand fade away?I think if Ford/GM got there hands on the Jeep brand quality would improve.Joe

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Ford used to build really good Jeeps, a friend of mine has one. I'd like to see them take over Jeep as well.


I don't, it seems like every company that gets Jeep goes down.

Ford would be better off bringing back a true successor to the 1st gen Bronco.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
Originally Posted By: SrDriver
Originally Posted By: rudolphna
I think Fiat has alot to offer chrysler, and vice a versa. Fiat has great small 4 cylinder engines. Chrysler has a fantastic new V6 coming out. I think they can both learn from each other.


Is the new V6 that will be built at one of their plants in Mexico?

Understand as part of the bankruptcy deal that the Wisconsin plant will be closed down?



Believe at least one version will be built in Trenton, MI.


Yup. The first year or two will be built in Mexico, but when the Trenton NJ plant comes online that is where all the engines will be built. Not to mention that teh fiat designed 4 cylinders are supposed to be built in Michigan.

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Chrysler already experimented with mid size CRI diesel in the Liberty. One tnhing I would hope Fiat would bring to the table for Chrysler in the North American marketplace is their small diesel engine technology. The problem may be meeting the stringent US EPA emissions standards for new diesels. Volkswagen/Audi (TDI) are able to do it without urea injection, using just a DPF setup. An updated Dodge Neon class of vehicle powered by a small 'clean diesel' engine capturing 38 - 40mpg around town and 46 - 50mpg on the road, would be a seller. As long as the dealership netword could prove competent at maintaining/repairing them... something VW dealerships need to improve upon with their TDI's...



Hopefully Fiats diesels are better than the VM Motori that Chrysler used in the liberty. It wasn't the most reliable of engines, but was a pretty powerful engine.

 

[rjundi]

It won't hurt as Chrysler has absolutely nothing competive to offer currently for the small/economical space.

What a great way to introduce an entire car maker with an infrastructure in place. Remember KIA, Daweoo an of the past and current Suzuki dealerships.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: Dually
Would Ford/GM step in to Jeep and improve upon what is there or will the Jeep brand fade away?I think if Ford/GM got there hands on the Jeep brand quality would improve.Joe


I don't think Jeep will fade away anytime soon. The brand is still too valuable to get rid of. Jeep has a history of being passed around from owner to owner anyway.

It would be interesting to see how Ford would handle Jeep. I don't think they did a lot for Land Rover, but that was a premium brand and Ford has changed a lot in the last two years. It would be cool since Ford made some of the original WWII Jeeps, but on the other hand owning the Jeep brand seems to be a bad omen. As previously mentioned, every company that has owned Jeep eventually went out of business.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: Dually
rt.Ford is on top with their quality and I think GM will improve.My concern is if Mercedes Benz could not make Chrysler a rel player how can Fiat do it?


Your assumption is flawed from the get-go. Daimler NEVER tried to "make Chrysler a real player." Chrysler was at the top of its game at the time of the merger, and Diamler had an industry-last time from concept to market. Daimler took Chrysler's cash reserves (which were rich at the time of the merger), took a whole lot of CAD design technology and simulation technology (which Chrysler had and Diamler didn't). The only "good" Daimler did for Chrysler was to throw North America a bone in terms of a very nice rear-drive platform (the LX), allowed Chrysler engineers to proceed with their own engine plans (the Hemis and the next generation v6es), but otherwise raped the company.

Cerberus let it wither of neglect- wouldn't even spend money on advertising.

If Chrysler recovers, it won't be on Fiat's shoulders entirely. The North American operation will have to continue re-inventing itself by refreshing the Dodge offerings, paring down the Jeep line to something rational (Jeep's greatest years of all time were when there were THREE models, but now there are 7+ models, and 2 of them are re-badged small cars that should never carry the Jeep name), and letting the truck division keep pounding out good ideas. If Fiat can provide a decent small car platform, then that will be enough for success.

Chrysler's best friend right now is Toyota tripping over its own self-absorption.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Fiat can't screw it up any worse than Daimler did.

The LX/LC line is getting dated. They need some new stuff to compete.

 

[454chevy]

How could Fiat be good for Chrysler? OR Daimler be good for Chrysler? The only thing good for Chrysler IS Chrysler.

They need to be their own company. Selling those midget cars is not what they need. My heart goes out to the guys left there who were probably sick to death of the Germans and now they are stuck with this Italian guy.

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
Hopefully Fiats diesels are better than the VM Motori that Chrysler used in the liberty. It wasn't the most reliable of engines, but was a pretty powerful engine.

FIAT's many divisions make so many diesel engines, in all sizes, for every kind of application. In the US, their Case/IH/New Holland tractors are quite common. But they sell heavy earth-moving equipment and also cars smaller than the 500 with sub-liter diesel engines.

 

[CourierDriver]

the fiat we drove in the 60's was a minivan, imagine that

 

[artificialist]

Chrysler isn't going anywhere as long as people are angry that the government gave them a loan, and then they went bankrupt and didn't pay it back.

Unless Fiat decides to pay that amount with interest back to the American public, just forget about the two catching on.

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
Chrysler isn't going anywhere as long as people are angry that the government gave them a loan, and then they went bankrupt and didn't pay it back.

Unless Fiat decides to pay that amount with interest back to the American public, just forget about the two catching on.

Chrysler is supposed to repay about $4.5 billion, but another $4.5 billion was written off during the bankruptcy proceedings. It's a pretty small amount compared to what was loaned to General Motors.

Just remember, if the workers at Chrysler had not been represented by the UAW, the government would not have stepped in. The Obama administration was only interested in saving the jobs of union members -- nothing was done for all the non-union workers in auto parts plants. So this was not exactly a bailout of an auto company, it was a payoff to the UAW.

FIAT is good for Chrysler, as long as it focuses on earning profits. If it starts keeping inefficient plants open because of political pressure, then that will be a bad sign.

 

[rszappa1]

Bingo....

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
[

Just remember, if the workers at Chrysler had not been represented by the UAW, the government would not have stepped in. The Obama administration was only interested in saving the jobs of union members -- nothing was done for all the non-union workers in auto parts plants. So this was not exactly a bailout of an auto company, it was a payoff to the UAW.[/quote]

DOUBLE BINGO!

Nailed it right on the head.

 

[wapacz]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Tornado Red

Just remember, if the workers at Chrysler had not been represented by the UAW, the government would not have stepped in. The Obama administration was only interested in saving the jobs of union members -- nothing was done for all the non-union workers in auto parts plants. So this was not exactly a bailout of an auto company, it was a payoff to the UAW.


DOUBLE BINGO!

Nailed it right on the head.


Yep thats why Bush gave them money. Since you know the UAW always votes for his party.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


The LX/LC line is getting dated. They need some new stuff to compete.


That line is one of the first ones to get a mid-life refresh- new interiors (thank GOD!!) and exterior updates for the Charger and 300. The platform itself has lots of life left- its still a technological and performance leader in its price class, and its not even that old really. And the drivetrain has been getting continuous tweaks all along- the current "Eagle" 5.7 with VVT is showing real-world performance that pretty much matches the eariler 6.1 SRT8 engines. The 6.1 is scheduled to get VVT next, and that should make the GM boys go back to the drawing board on everything but the Z06 and ZR1 powerplants

And they should be getting nervous about the Z06, too.